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Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

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Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#451

Post by rorykoehler »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #357
trutannus wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death isn't already the lottery win of our lifetime A lot of it boils down to people not trusting what they're seeing. Frankly, governments have done the world a disservice by speaking before they really had all the information at the start of the pandemic. In Canada at least an insane amount of what was said turned out to be…

Frankly, governments have done the world a disservice by speaking before they really had all the information at the start of the pandemic. They were doing the best they could to manage a crisis that it was their job to manage in an unprecedented situation. If people expected them to have perfect answers and solutions, they had unrealistic expectations.

Their best wasn’t very good. First thing is shut down flights from China. I mean it is a no brainier and I distinctly remember thinking wtf as we all waited and twiddled our thumbs because WHO said it wasn’t a pandemic yet. Yes we know it’s not a pandemic yet which happens to be the optimum time to act decisively so it doesn’t become one. Inexcusable.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#452

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

avz wrote: post #325
trutannus wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death isn't already the lottery win of our lifetime A lot of it boils down to people not trusting what they're seeing. Frankly, governments have done the world a disservice by speaking before they really had all the information at the start of the pandemic. In Canada at least an insane amount of what was said turned out to be…

> [...] lots of people see what looks like the "story changing", and distrust anything coming out of their government, [...]. Changing and updating our beliefs as evidence comes in is a fundamental ability that underlies numerous activities from scientific research to debugging software to driving on a congested road network. Why is it a problem for public health officials to update and change policy as we learn more…

Unfortunately in some places they did it when they already knew it was untrue but continued anyway "to prevent panic and shortage of masks supply". Then they turned 180 and made masks obligatory, even outside at all times, which is another extreme.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#453

Post by tekknik »

mahogany wrote: post #419
dvt wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rude and uncalled for, even after your edit. I was just correcting the term in the edit, but I agree I'm being a bit inflammatory. > Deplatforming works. No it doesn't. The entire history of Western Liberalism—since the Magna Carta onwards—teaches us that censorship is quite literally never the answer.

> No it doesn't. The entire history of Western Liberalism—since the Magna Carta onwards—teaches us that censorship is quite literally never the answer. What do you mean by "works"? Deplatforming seems to work if it's goal is to simply limit the spread of a message. Whether or not that's good or bad is a separate question. Do you think Alex Jones has just as big of a viewership as when he was on Youtube? Are there jus…

> Deplatforming seems to work if it's goal is to simply limit the spread of a message.

Deplatforming seems to work if it's goal is to simply limit free speech and control the narrative. There fixed that for you.

> Alex Jones has just as big of a viewership as when he was on Youtube?

Alex Jones got his youtube viewership from his radio show, he’s still quite active. All this did was prove those that believed him that he’s correct. It will still spread as it did before youtube.

> Are there just as many people who know what Trump was talking about last week, now that he's gone from Twitter?

And how many people you think are upset by this? Do you think that the left can just shut someone like Trump off from the every platform and everything’s just gonna be hunky dory? This one action alone is one of the major contributing factors to this anti vax movement. The left blew the divide up.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#454

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

rorykoehler wrote: post #451
DoreenMichele wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, governments have done the world a disservice by speaking before they really had all the information at the start of the pandemic. They were doing the best they could to manage a crisis that it was their job to manage in an unprecedented situation. If people expected them to have perfect answers and solutions, they had unrealistic expectations.

Their best wasn’t very good. First thing is shut down flights from China. I mean it is a no brainier and I distinctly remember thinking wtf as we all waited and twiddled our thumbs because WHO said it wasn’t a pandemic yet. Yes we know it’s not a pandemic yet which happens to be the optimum time to act decisively so it doesn’t become one. Inexcusable.

Yes, I couldn't get it either. The whole world was watching China in horror fight with the virus and at the same time the planes traveled easily to and from China for a long time as if nothing was happening. As if someone really wanted to invite the inevitable.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#455

Post by foogazi »

jader201 wrote: post #433
avz wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] lots of people see what looks like the "story changing", and distrust anything coming out of their government, [...]. Changing and updating our beliefs as evidence comes in is a fundamental ability that underlies numerous activities from scientific research to debugging software to driving on a congested road network. Why is it a problem for public health officials to update and change policy as we learn more…

By that logic, who’s to say “things won’t change” again, such that they find there is cause for concern after all? I’m not saying that’s what I believe, but if you’re admitting that we’re “changing and updating our beliefs as evidence comes in”, that also implies that we didn’t — and may still not — have all the data in front of us to make decisions.

> that also implies that we didn’t — and may still not — have all the data in front of us to make decisions.

We surely don’t - but we have more data than a year ago. And a year from now we’ll have even more

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#456

Post by phroobster »

mmmqaq wrote: post #416
phroobster wrote: post #408

I’ve already been diagnosed with covid and it was fine, a little worse than an average cold. Why should I take a vaccine and risk side effects for a disease with a 99.9% survival rate, when I’m not even bothered by it? Doesn’t make sense to me.

The probablity of survival from taking the vaccine more than 99.9%, so the benifits of vaccine is larger than the risk.

Even if the risk is minuscule, I just have no incentive to subject myself to additional risk.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#457

Post by zaarn »

jfkgktjjj wrote: post #213
outworlder wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If that's the case, could the proteins coded by the mRNA potentially have kicked off such a response? Why would they? And more specifically, why would they cause lung issues? Because that's the main problem with COVID. The virus like to bind to cells that have a specific receptors, with the vast majority contained in lung tissue. You would expect to see major damage near the injection site if your cytokine storm th…

> If there is a mechanism that will cause side effects on mRNA vaccines, then such mechanism will also be presented in the virus. You're forgetting about the lipids the vaccine mRNA is put into. One big reason it took so long to create mRNA vaccines was finding a suitable lipid mix. They need to have a specific property, they need to be electrically charged in a certain way, and pretty much all lipids with that prope…

Consider how little is actually injected into the human body (sub milligram dose mixed with saline solution), even if it was toxic, I doubt it would have any effect at this scale.

And btw, there is no difference between lipids we can make and lipids that our cells make. It's the same chemical composition.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#458

Post by zaarn »

jonhohle wrote: post #432
mahogany wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CDC has a page describing past vaccine safety issues, the most recent being 2013[0]. That most recent one says there was a voluntary recall and no health problems were reported. Doesn't sound too concerning to me to be honest. And because you mention long term effects a couple times -- how long would be long enough for you to feel okay about the safety of the vaccine, and how did you come up with this number?

The FDA has a process for approving vaccines. It seems to work reasonably well. At this point I have no issue with their process, which should, hypothetically, identify any long term effects. There currently are no preventative treatments for COVID that have completed the FDA approval process. The J&J shot at least uses a method previously used in an approved vaccine, but in that case (Ebola), the calculus probably m…

All the vaccines available in the US have completed the FDA approval process, which was allowed to proceed to later stages before an earlier stage was complete, to accelerate development. The length of time passed from last trial until approval was roughly the same as for most other vaccines, from what I recall.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#459

Post by drew-y »

swader999 wrote: post #230
drew-y wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to a specific email that makes you hesitant?

This article pretty much covers them all. It doesn't look good on him. Some of the redaections are due to ongoing investigations as well. https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/fauci-emails-reveal-damag...

Hmmm. Gotta say I did not find that article convincing. It just seems like he's skeptical of a paper that makes some wild claims.

The article also assumes that the paper was withdrawn because of some sort of political pressure. But fails to actually point to any real evidence. I think it's more likely that they made extraordinary claims and failed to produce the extraordinary evidence.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#460

Post by zaarn »

moralestapia wrote: post #130
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry your family member had this serious but exceedingly rare reaction to the vaccine, but here’s the thing: when, exactly, do you propose making the call to go ahead and get your family vaccinated? When vaccines are provably 100% safe? Probably not. So how about five nines, 99.999% safe? Well, no, apparently that’s not good enough for you, because that’s roughly what we’ve got. When it comes to fatal reactions…

Just curious, what are the safety numbers for other commonly deployed vaccines like the ones for influenza, etc...?

About 1 person in 1 million (so 300 americans) will possibly suffer (there is a weak link) GBS, a rare disorder where the immune system begins to attack the nervous system.

More commonly, people suffer allergic reactions (Up to a few hours later) which can be deadly. Allergic reactions aren't rare.

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