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Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

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Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#451

Post by mam2 »

jdub wrote: post #281
blagie wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're even more confused. Please reread: "I'll generally excuse people who are trying to do the right thing. Richard is trying to do the right thing." I understand within your cultural frame and value system, ethical behavior is defined with regards to other people's comfort. That's not true for Richard (not for the culture I was born in, for that matter; I don't much care if people around me feel comfortable, nor i…

I'm not confused. It's possible to do the right thing in the large and in the small at the same time. Using cross-cultural fluency to defend Richard Stallman, who doesn't care one iota about cross-cultural fluency, and constantly embarrasses people inside and outside his own culture, is weird.

The person above you is just saying that outrage cuture is not always "right". Its not even about cultural differences

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#452

Post by themacguffinman »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #438
themacguffinman wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the tweet was from someone I think unrelated to the project Seems fine for unrelated Twitter randos to say whatever they want about RMS, but would be distracting and counterproductive for GNU/FSF to permanently ban RMS in support of Twitter randos' unrelated ideals. I never said or implied anything about stopping Twitter randos from expressing or doing whatever they want.

I was asking you who used it as a vehicle... as the two people directly being discussed had not. I did not think you were trying to stop random people on twitter. I think you're answering that GNU/FSF used it improperly but am not certain.

Yes, the people working for GNU/FSF started using GNU/FSF to punish RMS in support of other ideals. Twitter randos may have talked about it but it's up to the GNU/FSF to focus & act on it.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#453

Post by yread »

mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

Are you saying that jerking off in front of people is OK or borderline? Stallman wasn't removed for "he once hit on me and I had to reject him". He wasn't criminalized at all, he resigned himself after saying stupid stuff.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#454

Post by Bost »

disgruntled101 wrote: post #430
mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

What you are saying here would get you cancelled 100 times over if you were a public person, sadly.

Once upon a time there was a dude with such an attitude and he became a president. Edit: And his story is not over yet. Apparently.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#455

Post by junke »

hntrader wrote: post #77
toiletfuneral wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah thats me, I don't care about 'intent' as much as 'outcome' All the well meaning in the world doesn't mean shit if you're creating hostility or demeaning others (that is not commentary on RMS, just in general)

"I don't care about 'intent' as much as 'outcome'" Accidentaly killing someone with your car is very different to negligent driving which causes death which is also very different to intentionally killing someone with your car. Clearly intent and context matters a lot.

> Clearly intent and context matters a lot.

The parent comment was short, said "as much as", and yet people downvote it, misinterpret it.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#456

Post by AzzieElbab »

astrange wrote: post #139
AzzieElbab wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never in my life seen so much hostility generated by good intentions as we are seeing now during this woke revolution. I repeat - never! And I lived through collapses of two failed states.

There's nothing new about wokeness. It's just what American Protestantism looks like; Americans have always been this way. Even used to be called the same thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes

Interesting, but woke beliefs are based on European deconstructionism and the goals and methods look more like post-marxist/maoist

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#457

Post by konjin »

buisi wrote: post #406
konjin wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd that none of the teens Epstein slept with would be illegal to sleep with in Germany. Pedophilia is starting to mean 'sex I find icky' in the US.

German Law is a bit more complicated than people give it credit for. While the police might not proactively go after cases involving some older minors, they will if the person files a complaint. If a situation involves "exploitation" under the law, as most of Epstein's crimes would be considered to, then it is also automatically illegal.

Yes, rape is a bad thing that gets reported in other countries too.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#458

Post by AzzieElbab »

rayiner wrote: post #156
AzzieElbab wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never in my life seen so much hostility generated by good intentions as we are seeing now during this woke revolution. I repeat - never! And I lived through collapses of two failed states.

They may have good intentions, but they lack respect for established norms, and spend little time thinking about the function and purpose of those norms. They kick over Chesterton's fence and assume it was there because Chesterton was some sort -ist: https://fs.blog/2020/03/chestertons-fence/

That is what revolutions are about, no?

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#459

Post by pfortuny »

_v7gu wrote: post #400
pfortuny wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No but justice comes before kindness.

Justice without kindness is just violence while somehow getting to feel good about it

Notice that I did not say "without".

Your statement (think about it) is a non-sequitur: I did not reject kindness, I just set an order. Think about mafias.

And I did not advocate violence, at all.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#460

Post by roenxi »

kelnos wrote: post #377
SilverRed wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats a serious misrepresentation of his words. He once had a page on his site saying that he did not think it was harmful if voluntary (eg, consent between people of similar ages but one being over age) He has since removed the post and stated that its more complex than he initially thought.

No, his post[0] didn't say anything about people of a similar age. His post linked to an article about a Dutch group forming a pro-pedophilia political party that wanted to drop the age of consent to 12, and then eliminate it entirely. RMS did not (as the parent said) directly argue that pedophilia is ok, but I don't see much distinction between directly arguing that vs. linking to something that does argue that, and…

He didn't say he agreed with it. He said "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children."

There is a wide gap between being sceptical of a claim, and supporting its negation. Anyone who is applying critical thinking will occasionally be sceptical of things which are obviously correct. People were sceptical of the wheel. People have been sceptical of money since the creation of money. People were sceptical of soap. Many software engineers appear to still be sceptical of soap.

The age of consent in, eg, Brazil is 12 [0] so it isn't like the opening salvo of that paedophile party is so radical an idea as to be unthinkable. Stallman linking it is not an extremist position.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_age_of_co...

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