The American Press Is Destroying Itself • Hacker News Board

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#451

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:12 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #281

mushbino wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "excessive pseudo socialism" and "Locust capitalism?" Also, I see your account was created an hour ago.

> pseudo socialism Example: The US healthcare system. The financing is through socialist policies (Medicare, state assistance, regulatory requirements/incentives for employer-provided insurance), but the system itself if thoroughly corrupt and inefficient. Example: "Affordable housing" subsidies/requirements. Instead of actually addressing high housing costs in general, set aside an inadequate amount of substandard h…

Thats not pseudo socialism

Thats just socialism.

The definition of socialism is social ownership of the methods implemented. In all cases above, the public at large owns the cost (and benefits) of the methods implemented: Medicare, Medicaid, affordable housing etc. We all pay for them, full stop.

Just because some of the programs have worse outcomes than elsewhere in the world, doesnt make them "less" socialist policies.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#452

Post by ashtonkem » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:12 AM UTC

Khaine wrote: post #411

ashtonkem wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should only be feared if: 1) You believe that the press did a good job during this unusual period. 2) You consider some of the sins of the past to be the fault of partisan press, at least in part.

Journalists of the past basically started the Spanish–American War

For sure. I wouldn’t want to go back to that specific period of journalism.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#453

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:21 AM UTC

chottocharaii wrote: post #448

krofoo9nn wrote: post #422

Former hero of mainstream journalism no longer fits in with mainstream journalism so of course it’s destroying itself. Perhaps Matt Taibbi is used to being a visibly elite journalist who isn’t on board with a new status quo that won’t benefit him the same. People are sick of yesterday’s politics and looking to remake things. The media is always going on about it’s important role in our political system. It needs a go…

Tying all reporting of facts to a need to push virtuous political narratives is braindead. By the way, Taibbi is doing fine, financially. So I hardly think this is a grudge article.

> By the way, Taibbi is doing fine, financially. So I hardly think this is a grudge article.

Just because he's doing fine financially doesn't mean he hasn't lost status, and he’s well into the financial range where more or less of that unlessnit radically changes station is essentially meaningless, but status and acclaim often remain quite meaningful.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#454

Post by Daishiman » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #435

Is the left losing their minds of their own accord? Or are people becoming more reactionary due to the unprecedented level of insanity that the right has displayed and wielded with actual political power of late? Calls for liberals to be be rational when a trump administration rules the country is a bit odd, since reasoned debate does no good there, or with the current GOP senate. what is left? throw a fit is about a…

Honestly I think this is it.

Being told to chill out on your own camp when you have deranged lunatics running the show who, by all accounts, are an order of magnitude more dangerous, leads to anything but chilling out.

The aggresiveness and disdain for dialogue of the fringe extremists running the executive in the US is basically leading to a more militant left wing, tired of being demanded nuance in the face of truly abhorrent adversaries.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#455

Post by damontal » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:25 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #261

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #62

I don't think they are. I think they are optimizing for survival. Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. Few people would consume it (or even be capable of doing so), even fewer are ready to pay the real price of it. So they did the next best thing: they changed to please the market in a way that makes money. Grabbing a lot of attention, as cheaply as possible, so that you can sell it to the hi…

Serious news is expensive, and at this point, a niche market. I suspect that's correct. It's hard now to find any news outlet now that sticks to "Who, What, When, Where, Why". This is a consequence of pay per click, probably. The left and the right now both have a checklist of mandatory positions required to avoid punishment. Those positions are in many cases contrary to fact. That's not good. Denial has become a cor…

I’ve always thought the Christian Science Monitor struck a good balance. It’s almost bland these days compared to the hyper charged headlines and slants you see in other papers.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#456

Post by Daishiman » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:27 AM UTC

tlear wrote: post #373

blickentwapft wrote: post #83

I’m getting to the point of just switching off. Whatever your opinion, there will be many others who deeply and vehemently disagree with you and do so with passionate, fiery, certain-to-be-correct righteous indignation. Carry your true opinions in your head and share them with no one.

Failed to take a knee or prostate yourself in front of whatever? Fired, cancelled etc Having grown up during perestroika. I remember saluting the red banner and blood soaked monster Lenin portet while reading Archipelago Gulag at home. Never though US will get here

Seriously?

Kids in the US would get in all kinds of trouble for not respecting the Pledge of Allegiance back in the... 90s, not the 70s.

It's only been in the past decade that anything that's not complete and vehement agreement with the "support the troops" mantra has been tolerated by the mainstream.

It's things like these that make me very skeptical of the intentions of the article. The idea of the American public being tolerant of ideas outside the norm is a new conservative narrative that has no correspondence with reality.

People were __pissed off__ when the Simpsons began to air. Openly admitting to doing drugs was (and still is, to a much lesser degree) a way to be fired an ostracised in many middle class circles.

I am really not seeing anything new.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#457

Post by Daishiman » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:29 AM UTC

spoopyskelly wrote: post #363

mcphage wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hate the cancel culture on the left, your mind is going to be blown when you find out what the right has been doing.

The right defending freedom of speech and the left pushing fascist ideals is pretty mind blowing.

I'm not seeing fair and balanced news on the American right. I am seeing appeals to true fascists and racists.

You have seriously no idea of what fascim is.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#458

Post by ghettoimp » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:33 AM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #402

ramphastidae wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is that if not a partisan political opinion? What was partisan about what he said? He made no mention of US political parties. He simply said that the war was failing and it needed to end. May I suggest you are projecting your partisanship onto this? Objective journalism is not about giving both sides an equal voice. It is OK to use rationale and logic to support one side over the other. Should all journalism…

Saying that the USA should get out of Vietnam is an opinion. You do not have to explicitly mention a party to express a partisan position. “Real” journalism reports the facts of what’s going on and lets people make their own decisions. They can interview people and report the opinions that other people hold, but they should try to avoid inserting their own biases. Walter Cronkite leveraged his position to express his…

I of course agree completely that a journalist should be open minded, aware of their own bias, conduct thorough research, interview knowledgeable people, and all of that. At the end of this process they are ideally quite an expert in whatever they are writing about.

But I'm not sure I see why journalists should try to be strictly objective. A journalist is in a unique position to identify the BS, provide analysis and context, and help the reader understand what to make of the competing narratives.

I really enjoyed, and highly recommend, a recent podcast on this subject: http://www.sceneonradio.org/s4-e11-more-truth/

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#459

Post by cmdshiftf4 » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:36 AM UTC

klipt wrote: post #417

silverlake wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I admire about Trump is his megalomania and ignorance makes him impervious to politically correct McCarthyites. The Twitter mobs will move on, just wait a little while.

Easy to be impervious to one mob when you have an equal but opposite mob to support you.

And yet, his so called mob has done... nothing here.

Which, I know, is very frustrating to those who are salivating at the thought of seeing them provoked. The unanswered cries of "where's the 2FA crowd now?!" have, admittedly, been very satisfying to watch.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#460

Post by lr4444lr » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:38 AM UTC

ramphastidae wrote: post #380

js2 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 48. My family had a newspaper subscription (in my case, the Miami Herald). I've been a consumer of news all my life, mostly print media. (My family rarely watched local news except for when a hurricane was headed our way, but would often watch programs like 60 minutes.) When was the news ever "Who, What, When, Where, Why?" It's always had a slant as long as I remember. Here's "the most trusted man in America" cal…

> What is that if not a partisan political opinion? What was partisan about what he said? He made no mention of US political parties. He simply said that the war was failing and it needed to end. May I suggest you are projecting your partisanship onto this? Objective journalism is not about giving both sides an equal voice. It is OK to use rationale and logic to support one side over the other. Should all journalism…

> Should all journalism about evolution also include equal time for creationism?

If a scientific finding in evolutionary biology which undermines some previously fundamental aspect of genetics or the timeline of natural selection (a finding which Creationists would exult in promoting and probably exaggerate for their own biases) is not given its due time in the trade journals then yes, we'd have a serious problem. While I realize this may not quite be what you meant, because Creationism simply isn't scientific, evolutionary biology as a matter of being a human endeavor is certainly subject to bias in publication.