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The American Press Is Destroying Itself

taibbi.substack.com

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Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#431

Post by vorpalhex »

pm90 wrote: post #426
vorpalhex wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite clearly not what he said unless you believe protestors to be lawbreakers. He took significant pains to separate out protestors from those who were rioting and looting and includes a defense of protesting as a right in the article.

He did not take significant pains to separate them, that is the whole point. Please cite sections of his essay that support your hypothesis.

> Those excuses are built on a revolting moral equivalence of rioters and looters to peaceful, law-abiding protesters. A majority who seek to protest peacefully shouldn’t be confused with bands of miscreants.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#432

Post by gameswithgo »

Bud wrote: post #404

In addition to the lies I listed in my other comment, Taibbi also lies about what he calls the "now-discredited Steele dossier" in this piece. Here are the facts: not a single significant conclusion in the Steele dossier has ever been discredited or proven false to date. Not one. Anyone who read Taibbi during the W Administration, and who reads him again now, can readily discern that someone got to him. It's not the…

people seem to just get that way as they approach/enter their 50s, nobody has to get to them.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#433

Post by ethagnawl »

Bud wrote: post #404

In addition to the lies I listed in my other comment, Taibbi also lies about what he calls the "now-discredited Steele dossier" in this piece. Here are the facts: not a single significant conclusion in the Steele dossier has ever been discredited or proven false to date. Not one. Anyone who read Taibbi during the W Administration, and who reads him again now, can readily discern that someone got to him. It's not the…

> It's the same with Glenn Greenwald, who Taibbi is now allied with.

Greenwald equated Michael Flynn's plea deal with the plight of poor folks being forced into bad deals by disinterested public defenders/overextended court systems on a recent episode of The Intercepted podcast. I no longer recognize the person I used to look forward to seeing as a guest on Democracy Now.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#434

Post by remarkEon »

forgingahead wrote: post #10
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #2

Thing is, when the New York Times was "the newspaper of record", everyone read it. When they only print what will pass muster with the howling mob, for fear of losing their jobs if they offend, then only the howling mob will read it. But the howling mob doesn't have enough members to support the New York Times. That is, catering to the most vocal segment of the Right Thinkers is a ticket to an ever-shrinking readersh…

People also seem to be unaware that howling mobs move on ...you just have to wait them out. Stand firm and they'll quickly find another target to bully.

>you just have to wait them out.

I'm not sure this is true. My experience is that either the mob is destroyed by force, or they manage to convert enough out of fear that they end up controlling the institution they were attacking.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#435

Post by gameswithgo »

Is the left losing their minds of their own accord? Or are people becoming more reactionary due to the unprecedented level of insanity that the right has displayed and wielded with actual political power of late? Calls for liberals to be be rational when a trump administration rules the country is a bit odd, since reasoned debate does no good there, or with the current GOP senate. what is left? throw a fit is about all that is left.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#436

Post by ponker »

Bud wrote: post #404

In addition to the lies I listed in my other comment, Taibbi also lies about what he calls the "now-discredited Steele dossier" in this piece. Here are the facts: not a single significant conclusion in the Steele dossier has ever been discredited or proven false to date. Not one. Anyone who read Taibbi during the W Administration, and who reads him again now, can readily discern that someone got to him. It's not the…

No, factual assertions are discredited by not being able to come up with proof. If I say that Mister Rogers raped a goat in a field in Pennsylvania in 1988, and am unable to come up with any proof, my assertion is discredited.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#437

Post by JackFr »

flyinglizard wrote: post #296
fragmede wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they? Centrists aren't a particularly passionate tribe, and the NYT's is about as mainstream media as it gets. They're going to have an absolute field day leading up to and including November, no matter who wins or loses, playing up, well, everything. NYT's most passionate tribe is not the Left, they're not left enough for them. But they're not playing to a tribe, but the passion itself. Seattle is no longer fron…

I’m a NYT subscriber - NYT is downright obsessed with Trump, and the all consuming anguish from the Democrats. I’m not saying right or wrong, I’m just saying that reading their opinion section - where editorial bias can _really_ come into play - you may find most opinions revolve around Trump and his policies. It is so ingrained into the newspaper that they cover Trump negatively even when he does something agreeable…

I am a subscriber to the NYT as well and lean center right politically. The NYT is without question the best newspaper in the country, and worth reading despite their editorial slant. Ignore the front page and the op-ed section and their coverage is wider, deeper And better written than any other US newspaper. (The Washington Post is good for politics, but mostly cause it’s the local paper in a one company town.)

But TFA isn’t about bias so much as the the left leaning press eating itself with doctrinaire purges.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#438

Post by coffeefirst »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #134

For those in the comments that haven't read the article, I highly recommend you check it out. While the comments are talking about the survival of news media and "tone-deaf" titles, the bulk of the article is about the Overton window[1] shifting to the point where rigerous journalism questioning outrages of the time is becoming untenable, weakening the news overall. It's a very good read. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org…

That's true, and I usually like Taibbi, but I think he's misreading the issue.

The real overton window has moved a little bit, but a lot of this is really about Twitter. Many institutions, including universities and publishers, act like Twitter outrage represents their real readers and communities.

This isn't true. Twitter is a thick bubble that gives the loudest voice to the angriest, most passionate outrage-mongers. Sometimes they use it for good causes, other times they're way outside the mainstream. They also firmly believe, in a way that's constantly contradicted by polling, surveys, and talking to people in real life, that they're not only right but the majority.

I can't say for sure that it's getting worse, but it feels like.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#439

Post by dragonwriter »

ponker wrote: post #436
Bud wrote: post #404

In addition to the lies I listed in my other comment, Taibbi also lies about what he calls the "now-discredited Steele dossier" in this piece. Here are the facts: not a single significant conclusion in the Steele dossier has ever been discredited or proven false to date. Not one. Anyone who read Taibbi during the W Administration, and who reads him again now, can readily discern that someone got to him. It's not the…

No, factual assertions are discredited by not being able to come up with proof. If I say that Mister Rogers raped a goat in a field in Pennsylvania in 1988, and am unable to come up with any proof, my assertion is discredited.

“substantiated”, “unsubstantiated”, and “discredited” are three different positions, not two.

Re: The American Press Is Destroying Itself

#440

Post by chlodwig »

Bud wrote: post #404

In addition to the lies I listed in my other comment, Taibbi also lies about what he calls the "now-discredited Steele dossier" in this piece. Here are the facts: not a single significant conclusion in the Steele dossier has ever been discredited or proven false to date. Not one. Anyone who read Taibbi during the W Administration, and who reads him again now, can readily discern that someone got to him. It's not the…

It was discredited, Steele's own source reported to the FBI that the stuff in the report was full of hearsay, rumor, misstatements, and exaggeration: 'the Primary Sub-source told the FBI that he/she had not seen Steele's reports until they became public that month, and that he/she made statements indicating that Steele misstated or exaggerated the Primary Sub-source's statements in multiple sections of the reporting. 336 For example, the Primary Sub-source told the FBI that, while Report 80 stated that Trump's alleged sexual activities at the Ritz Carlton hotel in Moscow had been "confirmed" by a senior, western staff member at the hotel, the Primary Sub-source explained that he/she reported to Steele that Trump's alleged unorthodox sexual activity at the Ritz Carlton hotel was "rumor and speculation" and that he/she had not been able to confirm the story....In addition, the FBI interviews with the Primary Sub-source revealed that Steele did not have good insight into how many degrees of separation existed between the Primary Sub-source's sub-sources and the persons quoted in the reporting, and that it could have been multiple layers of hearsay upon hearsay. For example, the Primary Sub-source stated to WFO Agent 1 that, in contrast to the impression left from the election reports, his/her sub-sources did not have direct access to the persons they were reporting on. Instead, the Primary Sub-source told WFO Agent 1 that their information was "from someone else who may have had access." The Primary Sub-source also informed WFO Agent 1 that Steele tasked him/her after the 2016 U.S. elections to find corroboration for the election reporting and that the Primary Sub-source could find none. According to WFO Agent 1, during an interview in May 2017, the Primary Sub-source said the corroboration was "zero."'

This is all in the Horowitz Report.

There is zero reason to believe anything in the Steel Dossier.

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