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De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

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Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#451

Post by epakai »

kortilla wrote: post #362
idealboy wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I and about 90% of the crowd wore masks. Yes, we did our best to keep 6 feet but not always, hence the masks. People were walking around with hand sanitizer to share. A global pandemic is awful, but it does not alleviate us of our civic responsibility. Was it uncomfortable and difficult? Yes. Am I glad I went? Hell yes. Black lives matter.

> but it does not alleviate us of our civic responsibility. The protests haven’t worked though for the last 20 years or so. IMO it’s more important to vote and promote change than to block traffic. People remember how you made them feel more easily than what you actually said. Preventing them from getting somewhere is a great way to just piss people off.

I believe protests were working, but progress has since been reversed. Police militarization is controversial. The previous administration made efforts like 'Smart on Crime' and federal laissez-faire approach to marijuana enforcement.

Many of these issues were reversed in an attempt to be tough on crime again with a big push from the AG in 2017. Tensions have been stoked by things like a pardon dealt out to a sheriff who violated a court order relating to racial profiling. I have a hard time believing these acts aren't having their intended effects.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#452

Post by kevingadd »

stcredzero wrote: post #154
komali2 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that any responsibility should fall to the protesters. The right to protest is baked into the first legal document the country as a political entity wrote. For the last 250 years politicians and cops have had the knowledge that Americans care a great deal about their right to stand in front of a statehouse and shout to their heart's content. They should create their own policies to deal with that fact. If…

Now that being said, black lives matter in particular suffers from (in my opinion) a lack of leadership and organization. A universal problem with "leaderless movements" is that they quickly devolve to the lowest common denominator level. Anyone can put out their slate and call themselves an "activist" and it's inevitable that some dim person will come along and try to make a name for themselves by taking things fart…

> Would you feel that way if they came and burned your house or business down?

Yeah. My house and business would be insured. No amount of insurance can revive a man, woman or child murdered by police. I'm OK with personal sacrifices in service of justice.

I would happily burn all of my earthly possessions if it meant babies like Bou Bou Phonesavanh were no longer at risk of being critically injured by flashbangs or murdered by stray gunfire.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#453

Post by edanm »

PeterStuer wrote: post #439

You should not underestimate the extent of undercover/false flag instigators of violence at protests. At least here in Belgium this is a practice that is uncovered nearly every time when some violence erupts at demonstrations. The individuals that start the aggression are later photographed to be chilling and changing attire behind police lines. Usually people at large anti-establishment rallies know very well there…

That's fascinating, do you have any references that discuss this? (preferably in English to avoid Google Translate)

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#454

Post by lxmorj »

beloch wrote: post #78

We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…

It is flabbergasting to me that we expect self-policing from protestors, but not the literal fucking police.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#455

Post by balls187 »

I was observing the BLM protest in DT Renton today.

The Renton PD seemed to employ a "out of plain sight" approach.

Patrol vehicles strategically placed, a few uniform officers were near occassionally chatting with protestors, and patrol vehicles driving by the scene.

At one point a team of bicycle cops appeared out of no where rode through along side the protestors.

Each "side" seemed to be respectful of each other.

The approach of the Renton Police Department not antagonizing the protestors had it's intended effect--the protestors protested peacefully. In fact, when police vehicles flashed lights, or chirped sirens in support of the protestors, the protestors cheered in support back.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#456

Post by aaronchall »

asenna wrote: post #215

I highly recommend checking out Trevor Noah's recent video on the protests - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb4Bg8mu2aM He mentions how society is at its core a contract on how to engage with one another. Everything we do is in some form conforming to that contract and when this contract is violated (like the stores being looted and vandalized), it angers you. However, to the people who're really affected by this is…

The sense I get of it is that he is making excuses for looting behavior.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#457

Post by znpy »

beloch wrote: post #78

We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…

I'm seeing many videos of police doing things like attacking journalists, beating their own cars so that they can later blame the protestors or videos of police unloading bricks from their pickup.

The problem is not de-escalation, is that the police is behaving in a criminal manner.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#458

Post by sgustard »

briandear wrote: post #220
bjourne wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on a few demos that turned violent. Among them the famous one when George Bush decided to pay a visit. In all cases , the organizers wanted to cooperate with the police. They knew who were in the "autonomous bloc" (troublemakers) and would have gladly helped the police zone in on them. In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike. I find it very odd that the polic…

> I find it very odd that the police still cannot after all these years and with all development in surveillance tech distinguish between peaceful demonstrators and rioters. One could almost believe that they have no interest in making that distinction. I have been in the middle of protests when I worked for Reuters and the difference between peaceful and violent is very tiny. I was in the no-man’s land between the K…

> how left wing protests seem to frequently degrade into violence

"The Women’s March on Washington was likely the largest single-day demonstration in recorded US history" and entirely free of violence.

> all Americans were outraged about Floyd’s death

"Outraged" is a strong term. "One more tragic item in the news which is quickly forgotten" is more accurate for most of white America.

> as soon as looting, fires, and violence starts

No longer forgotten, is what that achieves.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#459

Post by Polylactic_acid »

balls187 wrote: post #455

I was observing the BLM protest in DT Renton today. The Renton PD seemed to employ a "out of plain sight" approach. Patrol vehicles strategically placed, a few uniform officers were near occassionally chatting with protestors, and patrol vehicles driving by the scene. At one point a team of bicycle cops appeared out of no where rode through along side the protestors. Each "side" seemed to be respectful of each other.…

It seems to me that almost every violent protest/riot started peaceful but then police make it violent.

I have seen this so many times where police stay out of the way and everything goes smoothly. I think US police actually want a riot. They want to create violence.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#460

Post by 7952 »

kortilla wrote: post #362
idealboy wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I and about 90% of the crowd wore masks. Yes, we did our best to keep 6 feet but not always, hence the masks. People were walking around with hand sanitizer to share. A global pandemic is awful, but it does not alleviate us of our civic responsibility. Was it uncomfortable and difficult? Yes. Am I glad I went? Hell yes. Black lives matter.

> but it does not alleviate us of our civic responsibility. The protests haven’t worked though for the last 20 years or so. IMO it’s more important to vote and promote change than to block traffic. People remember how you made them feel more easily than what you actually said. Preventing them from getting somewhere is a great way to just piss people off.

Polite protests are completely ignored. And if the political system was working for them they would not feel the need to protest.
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