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China Blocks WhatsApp

nytimes.com

451–460 of 648 posts

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it better than whatsapp?

Not going to go into detail as I'm sure you know how to use Google. Wechat isn't simply chat. It has grown into a platform that has empowered it's users to partake in a growing ecommerce industry. It also has p2p payments which is hugely popular.

If there were only 1 channel on TV, that channel would be very popular!

If Google or Facebook were given a monopoly on chat by the US government, and hardly anyone had credit cards, then their wallets would be universally popular too.

WeChat isn't going to get much market penetration outside of China because it's just not very good. At least that's my opinion, as someone who's forced it use it in China.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing the West does is principled, and the sooner people realise this the sooner they understand why the rest of the world reacts the way they do to the West. From destabilising Libya and Syria, to taking in refugees, to grandstanding with Russia, nothing is done for any set of moral principles. Libya and Syria were 2 nations that believed in Arab and African pan-nationalism, and tried to assert independence and se…

This is the kind of ideology over reality argument that gives academics such a bad name. You list all of these "bad" foreign policy actions without examining the context, the costs of doing nothing, or any of the "good" actions these countries have also done. Take Libya, for example, the choice was to either do nothing, and let a dictator kill a bunch of his own people, in which case the US would have been condemned…

>let a dictator kill a bunch of his own people

It turns out [1] that the claims of Libyan genocide were false. There were other choices than "do nothing" or "help the rebels". For example, a reasonable decision would have been to thoroughly, carefully and accurately investigate the genocide claims.

[1] http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/29/hillary-clin...

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#453
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a new situation. I grew up in a more liberal part of China and always thought their political situation was their bottleneck for economic, cultural and human development. The state of the world right now shows how I was wrong. And as you mentioned, tightening of control by different governments around the world seems to indicate that we have found a common trend and its not the liberal one...

There will be a bottleneck. It took hundreds of years of sea ban for Ming China to fall behind in the Age of Sail; it might take a few decades for a closed society to euthanize itself in a digital age built on free exchange and open discourse.

But thats not the direction communist china has been taking. It has been opening more and more since the 70s

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#454
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To take the analogy a bit further with the boiling frogs, the frogs jumped out of the water, until Goltz removed the brains from the frogs. So, how does that relate to China? Well, if they still have brains, they will reach a tipping point as the water warms. More closely, so long as they have access to information (I think) they will eventually decide that enough is enough. So, then the question is do they have enou…

"River crab" is homophone with "harmony", an euphemism for censorship. As for why people accept the situation, one can probably start with "Nash equilibrium" (I chose not to use the term "prisoners' dilemma" as that could project uneeded connotation in this context).

Near, thanks. I'd had it explained to me, but had long since forgotten.

It was very different to go there in person. I expected an undercurrent of political unrest and dismay with the things like censorship. It really didn't seem like I met anyone willing to vocalize serious displeasure.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#455
post #438

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

The CCP congress is next month. They have always cracked down on censorship before it. Their 5-years plan for 2016-2020 is about transitioning from the basic industry to more advanced industry and services. They want more research, they want more IT. Chinese IT workers are very critical of the Great Firewall and depend on VPNs to do a lot of things. I think many are realizing that the Firewall is a handicap, but it i…

If they actually open in response to some of the forces you name, great! More power to them. I, personally, think that would be their best move in terms of global competitiveness over the next 100 years.

But it takes some major cynicism to actually consider the moral impact of USA vs China on a global stage comparable. They are much quieter about their international adventurism, but they have a decades long history of protecting and supporting bad actors. Whatever the failure of the USA, North Korea would not be a new breakout nuclear power threatening to become the most likely scenario for nuclear war without major backing and even encouragement from China. China also has multiple ongoing, top-down, programmed genocides happening in several territories, including cultural and institutional colonization of Hong Kong and Taiwan.

And that's not even raising the question of who's political values are better, both morally and strategically, for the human race.

I understand why cynicism with the US (and the whole West in general) is high... but let's keep things in perspective here.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#456
post #257
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VPNs probably. They've started to crack down on those lately, too. Also, a random tweet I saw today apparently with a recording of China's CCTV surveillance system: https://twitter.com/0XDEDBEEF/status/912026226658652160 No wonder China wants to be #1 in "artificial intelligence". Surveillance and censorship are likely the primary motivators for that.

I can't read chinese: What kind of data do they have there?

labels on moving objects: vehicle, adult, child, bike, T-shirt, etc.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#457
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All traffic to/from some IP addresses is blocked, additionally all Chinese DNS servers respond with random A records when the domain name is banned, for example: $ host facebook.com 202.97.0.6 facebook.com A 8.7.198.45 $ host facebook.com 202.97.0.6 facebook.com A 243.185.187.39 $ host facebook.com 202.97.0.6 facebook.com A 243.185.187.39 $ host facebook.com 202.97.0.6 facebook.com A 46.82.174.68 $ host facebook.com…

So you can get around the block if you use 8.8.8.8 for DNS?

No you can't, you will still get a connection reset error

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China might build their own products and I can see them building WhatsApp alternatives, but I won't install Chinese alternatives to WhatsApp on my phone, which means the Chinese won't be able to talk with me, an European, all the while I'm communicating without issues with acquaintances from all over Europe and the U.S. This means that the Chinese are living in a bubble. This isn't news of course. But the other issue…

> And their "copy machines" are actually racing against the clock, as more and more factories get fully automated and thus relocated home, not to mention their rising middle class, thus their cheap labor advantage will eventually go away. So when multinational companies will no longer assemble their products in China, what will they copy? There's more to this than just being a provider of manufacturing services for o…

Your views on things are pretty static, China has ups and downs in the river of history, it also had tech flourishing time like in Song dynasty. I guess 40 years ago you would never have a chance to see what China could be now. By the way, Shinhansen also imported a great deal tech from Germany, but what's big deal of it? Why can't China just learn from other countries and build a better and more accessible one? Just like Japan or America did? China now has fully advanced high-speed trains and pushing it to dozens of markets. Including The U.S. You were talking about the policies, those big companies came and made their money without paying taxes, not to mention successfully transferred a lot of polluted industries to China. they got what they deserve. Don't whine about that.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#459
post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CCP congress is next month. They have always cracked down on censorship before it. Their 5-years plan for 2016-2020 is about transitioning from the basic industry to more advanced industry and services. They want more research, they want more IT. Chinese IT workers are very critical of the Great Firewall and depend on VPNs to do a lot of things. I think many are realizing that the Firewall is a handicap, but it i…

If they actually open in response to some of the forces you name, great! More power to them. I, personally, think that would be their best move in terms of global competitiveness over the next 100 years. But it takes some major cynicism to actually consider the moral impact of USA vs China on a global stage comparable. They are much quieter about their international adventurism, but they have a decades long history o…

I am not saying that China is good. I am saying that both US and China are bad and that choosing between them is like choosing between plague and cholera.

> but they have a decades long history of protecting and supporting bad actors

- Saudi Arabia

- Talebans

- Pakistan

- Pinochet

- Putin

To name a few "nice" people who received a lot of support from the US.

> Whatever the failure of the USA, North Korea would not be a new breakout nuclear power threatening to become the most likely scenario for nuclear war without major backing and even encouragement from China.

The turning point for NK was in the 2000s. US had invaded Iraq on the obviously false pretense it had WMD. It had not. Had it, it may have repelled an invasion by using them. NK's stance on nuclear deterrence is a direct (and actually rational) reaction to GWB's foreign relations approach. Dubya's administration's lack of diplomacy skills caused that mess.

And yes, decades of lack of US plans in a place where it still has a lot of soldiers led to this situation and led to China (and a bit Russia) having the higher hand just because they kept their diplomatic channels open instead of speaking loudly and doing nothing. USA has bases in Japan and South Korea, of course China wants to keep a buffer.

Imagine if China had huge naval bases in Mexico, Cuba and Canada. You would be happy to give it an enemy to focus on rather than on yourself. De-escalation could have happened in the 2000s but I fear we now are past that point.

Now after 8 years of GWB and God knows how many more of Trump Japan is slowly coming to the idea that going full militaristic is not a bad idea and that they can't rely on US for managing the area. And they are right: China is becoming the dominant power in Asia and USA apparently decided to let it do.

> China also has multiple ongoing, top-down, programmed genocides happening in several territories, including cultural and institutional colonization of Hong Kong and Taiwan.

Calling that genocide is really disingenuous. This is just cultural influence by a behemoth. Calling it a genocide is as ridiculous as calling the US influence over EU culture a genocide.

If you want something closer to human rights violations by China, better look into what is happening in Tibet. You'll get things that look a lot dire, a bit like what US' allies are doing in Yemen or in Palestine (where, btw, there does not seem to be a plan other than a progressive ethnic cleansing).

Both are evil and supporting evil actors. None is interested in deescalation and solving the human rights violations in the world. Fuck both of these countries. And if I ever have to choose between the racist and imperialist ideology that the American spirit has become and the cold-hearted efficiency seeking technocracy of China, I'll just toss a coin. I would feel like Finland during WWII, stuck between the 3rd Reich and USSR. Both are bad, both are evil. The world would be better off without them.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#460
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different cultures have different relationships to authority. Han culture is very different from the west. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_distance

I get the impression that the idea that Chinese culture is somehow more naturally accepting of authoritarianism is part of a propaganda narrative promoted by Chinese authoritarians to protect their own power. > China Takes Aim at Western Ideas > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-lead... > Communist Party cadres have filled meeting halls around China to hear a somber, secretive warning issued by…

There is no basis to assume that cultures are similar in their power distance. More traditional cultures generally have more power distance.

Whose propaganda is the higher acceptance of authority of Americans compared to many European countries?

PDI (Power distance index):

    81   MEXICO
    80   CHINA
    68   HONG KONG
    58   TAIWAN
    54   JAPAN
    40   UNITED STATES
    31   SWEDEN
    18   DENMARK
http://www.clearlycultural.com/geert-hofstede-cultural-dimen...
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