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Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

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Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not irrational when your companies lawyers say that you many not use React due to the licensing, and there is a very real chance you will be terminated if you do. Unless you mean that lawyers are irrational, in which case I would agree (throwing in judges and politicians and anyone else in the legal profession while we are at it).

With the old patents license, you had to be the one to initiate patent litigation with Facebook. The odds of needing to and wanting to get into patent litigation with Facebook are way less than 1%. That's an irrational fear. If something has a 1:100,000 chance of impacting you...I dunno man, when it comes to startups I can think of 1000 other things more likely to affect you. Companies that didn't even have patents w…

I don't work for a startup. I work for a Fortune 150 company with nearly 100,000 employees.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#452
post #140

So which FB project still have a BSD+patents license. I count: * ReasonML - https://github.com/facebook/reason/blob/master/PATENTS.txt * GraphQL - https://github.com/graphql/graphql-js/blob/master/PATENTS * react-native - https://github.com/facebook/react-native/blob/master/PATENTS * PlanOut - https://github.com/facebook/planout/blob/master/PATENTS * Flow - https://github.com/facebook/flow/blob/master/PATENTS * Haxl…

I've been trying to tell everyone licensing is more important than they realize, but there are so many people who fundamentally misunderstand licensing and therefor just don't care (dwtfyw license for example), or have falsely been trained by subpar instructors at uni and $othertraining about how bsd/mit is the superior license for business because $reasons. The four freedoms and free software solve so many of the pr…

>I've been trying to tell everyone licensing is more important than they realize, but there are so many people who fundamentally misunderstand licensing and therefor just don't care

Maybe they don't care because in reality its not a problem?

In the sense that it's not a problem people generally have -- not that nobody ever has had it.

A lot of people worry too much about all kinds of BS eventualities and technicalities, and this could be one of them in most cases.

>Now that we have a concrete example of how picking tooling with bad licensing can bite people in the butt

It only bit FB in the butt (in the sense that some developers complained about their license choice) -- not those using the tooling with FB license.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me more about commercial sales of GPL software. How could I make sure that people pay me for using my desktop app if it was GPL?

A common misconception is that under GPL all your code must be released to the public. This is not true. You only have to give code to the user after purchase. Now, it's true that the user could then upload your software to the public (under gpl), but many of the issues surrounding that (such as lost sales #) aren't as bad as people imagine they are, and in the foss world are generally made up for by high-maintainenc…

>A common misconception is that under GPL all your code must be released to the public. This is not true. You only have to give code to the user after purchase. Now, it's true that the user could then upload your software to the public (under gpl), but many of the issues surrounding that (such as lost sales #) aren't as bad as people imagine they are

Really?

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an example of a commercially successful GPL desktop app?

VLC , but it has LGPL and GPL components iirc.

What part of VLC is commercially succesful?

Heck, they couldn't even put it on the iOS App Store for free...

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#455
post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an example of a commercially successful GPL desktop app?

Synergy [1] https://symless.com/synergy [2] https://github.com/symless/synergy-core

That's only some "core" for the software, not the full software, which is kept proprietary.

And even that could hurt their business if somebody used the core to build their own app for the same target market on top of it.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#456

That was incredibly unexpected. Facebook may very well end up in the majority's good graces with this move. I wonder how some of the bigger players will react (no pun intended) after their abandonment of React in lieu of Vue or some other framework. Interesting times indeed.

As I see it this shows that you can't trust Facebook. And that Mark still is the same dude that once said "They trust me. Dumb fucks".

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A common misconception is that under GPL all your code must be released to the public. This is not true. You only have to give code to the user after purchase. Now, it's true that the user could then upload your software to the public (under gpl), but many of the issues surrounding that (such as lost sales #) aren't as bad as people imagine they are, and in the foss world are generally made up for by high-maintainenc…

> A common misconception is that under GPL all your code must be released to the public. This is not true. You only have to give code to the user after purchase. Now, it's true that the user could then upload your software to the public (under gpl), but many of the issues surrounding that (such as lost sales #) aren't as bad as people imagine they are Really?

The company I work for seems to be doing OK:

https://finance.google.co.uk/finance?q=NYSE:RHT

We actively buy proprietary companies and relicense their software under free software licenses.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#458
post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A common misconception is that under GPL all your code must be released to the public. This is not true. You only have to give code to the user after purchase. Now, it's true that the user could then upload your software to the public (under gpl), but many of the issues surrounding that (such as lost sales #) aren't as bad as people imagine they are Really?

The company I work for seems to be doing OK: https://finance.google.co.uk/finance?q=NYSE:RHT We actively buy proprietary companies and relicense their software under free software licenses.

That's because they don't sell software, they sell support and services.

Now, about actual software as a product success stories, where you don't sell to companies that need someone to blame (and thus opt for support contracts)?

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The way I read it, Facebook essentially shirked the issue, regardless whether it's only a perception problem, onto companies like Wordpress. WP has their own users, it's not WP's job to do FB's work for them, and FB has to have known the patents clause was going to be problematic, or at least controversial.

React has been out for 4 years now. This hasn't been this big of a deal. But I guess at this point, React has hit critical mass, and it's sort of becoming a standard for front end development, so the FUD hit fever pitch.

You seem to have other issues with the controversy, but remember that the impetus for discussion these days was the Apache Software Foundation not accepting BSD+P as compatible with its policies.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But BSD+Patents isn't.

What I meant is that Facebook could just have used BSD without a patent grant. But I read in other comments that some some lawyers think MIT implies a patent grant, which could explain why they switched from BSD to MIT.

> What I meant is that Facebook could just have used BSD without a patent grant.

Ahh, I see. But I think if they were just using BSD instead of BSD+Patents no one would have had any issue with it.

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