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Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

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Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#181

Post by chc »

carussell wrote: post #158
ploxiln wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's licensed MIT, the Engineers just say "it's MIT license like half of the libraries we already use" and it's a legal non-issue. If the license is not one of the standard ones already in use, and it mentions patents, suddenly legal gets involved and it's a disaster. They're very risk-adverse and no one's really sure what will happen when it gets to court. It doesn't have to make sense - after all, most software…

This is the first time I've seen "put your head in the sand" as an actual recommendation, instead of being characterized as something not to do. And as far as recommendations go, it's more than a little bit nutty.

It's actually a common policy when it comes to patents. If you are found to infringe on a patent and it can be shown that you knew about it, the penalties are much harsher. This is one of the many reasons people consider the patent system to be badly broken.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#182

Post by irrational »

chrisco255 wrote: post #168
CydeWeys wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, big thanks go out to Wordpress. They're no small part of this win for Free Software.

Well...now back to writing code and shipping things...we can all put our irrational fantasies of patent litigation and being "unacquirable" startups due to React to rest.

It's not irrational when your companies lawyers say that you many not use React due to the licensing, and there is a very real chance you will be terminated if you do. Unless you mean that lawyers are irrational, in which case I would agree (throwing in judges and politicians and anyone else in the legal profession while we are at it).

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#183

Post by tempw »

cies wrote: post #140

So which FB project still have a BSD+patents license. I count: * ReasonML - https://github.com/facebook/reason/blob/master/PATENTS.txt * GraphQL - https://github.com/graphql/graphql-js/blob/master/PATENTS * react-native - https://github.com/facebook/react-native/blob/master/PATENTS * PlanOut - https://github.com/facebook/planout/blob/master/PATENTS * Flow - https://github.com/facebook/flow/blob/master/PATENTS * Haxl…

Which license is PyTorch?

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#184

Post by chc »

spenczar5 wrote: post #148
guelo wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unethical developers that work at shitty companies with shitty lawyers were annoyed that they couldn't use React. That's all there is to it. I loved BSD+patent as one of the few potentially successful attacks on the awful software patents regime that we currently live under. This defeat means we are probably stuck with it for the rest of our careers.

I think you have it backwards. The facebook patent license puts all the power in their hands, and none in yours: they can still sue you for violating their patents, but you can't sue them . It would be a much, much worse patent regime.

The entire point of the patent license is that they can't sue you for violating any patents that cover the library you're using. So it's at least a bit over-broad to it puts all the power in their hands.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#185

Post by irrational »

blaqkangel wrote: post #11

That was incredibly unexpected. Facebook may very well end up in the majority's good graces with this move. I wonder how some of the bigger players will react (no pun intended) after their abandonment of React in lieu of Vue or some other framework. Interesting times indeed.

Yeah, we've already settled on Vue (because our lawyers forbade us from using React), but now I'm sure they would approve React. So... do we abandon our work on Vue (which so far is amazing) to switch to React since the React ecosystem is so large, or do we stay the course? Sigh. I wish Facebook had made this change a year ago.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#186

Post by jjnoakes »

abritinthebay wrote: post #41
0xbear wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s asymmetrical in the sense that your license terminates even if you sue them for something that’s not in the software you’re using. I.e. they rip off your feature, and you’re using React, you’re f##d.

Literally not true. You’d just revert to BSD if you sued. So same protection as now.

Many argue that the difference is between the old explicit grant (which was one-sided) and the new implicit grant (which is more two-sided). Reverting to BSD doesn't remove the fact that the explicit grant was revoked, so the real comparison of one sued is BSD with no inplicit grant to MIT with an implicit grant.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#187

Post by 0x0 »

This looks like damage control and is limited to a select few open source projects of theirs. Feel free to change your mind, but think twice about committing to depend on projects from a source that didn't seem to have a problem with this license before the exodus. Will it happen again?

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#188

Post by [deleted] »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #68
MikeHolman wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Facebook may very well end up in the majority's good graces with this move. Really? They are doing the minimum possible to prevent an exodus from their stack after a public outcry.

There was no sign of an exodus. That’s ludicrously hyperbolic.

[deleted]

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#189

Post by LeoNatan25 »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #151

IANAL, but here's an ominous scenario: There is no patent clause now. Assuming some FB patent has crept its way in one of their open source, if a company sues FB for patent infringement, FB would be able to counter-sue for copyright infringement due to the suing company's use of FB's open source. "As long as you don't sue us, we won't sue you" kind of a deal. If the above scenario is true, it seems there is no de fac…

So this post is getting downvoted, but no one is arguing why they disagree or believe this is not a realistic outlook. Emotional responses don't really help anyone, and this is not Reddit.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#190

Post by geerlingguy »

joshmanders wrote: post #90
Twirrim wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strange claim given how many major projects have appeared on the front page of HN because of it, everything from the Apache foundation to Wordpress.

> everything from the Apache foundation to Wordpress. Those were the only two.

Drupal was also close to picking a new library to replace or supplement Backbone, and React was just dropped out of the running (with a strong favor for Vue) a week or two ago.
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