Earlier quoted context omitted.
I responded asking how far it should go. My name is for people like you.
How far should what go, O cowardly dick? I think the powers of the state to spy on its citizens should be minimal and tightly controlled, because historically they always have been abused, and modern technology makes it much easier to run a surveillance state. So if you're asking how far surveillance should go, I'd say, "quite a ways back." I'm not particularly worried about it, though, not in the US. As my links ind…
Defeated
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Re: Defeated
#442Earlier quoted context omitted.
You get pulled aside while the agent manning the scanner yells for a "male/female assist" (depending on your sex). It takes somewhere between 30 seconds and 30 minutes for them to find someone to grope you. You're then taken around the scanner, asked to identify (but not touch) your luggage. They pick up your luggage, lead you over to a screening area (which is in public view; they give you the option of a private pa…
As I was reading your reply, I kept thinking, "Well, this sounds pretty standard..." until I reached the part where you said: > give you a very thorough groping which includes putting their fingers into your waistband and feeling your junk and buttocks with the backs of their hands > fingers into your waistband and feeling your junk and buttocks > feeling your junk and buttocks Wat? Are they expecting that the bad gu…
Frankly, if I intended to blow up an airplane, I'd have no trouble stuffing stuff where the sun don't shine. If you know that an agent isn't going to check an area, it makes sense to hide things in that area.
> Also, honest question: why would anyone want to go through this?
For me, it is a form of protest. I don't enjoy it, and I don't look forward to it, but I believe that the TSA as it exists today is a wholly worthless organization which spends a good chunk of my money to put on the hollow appearance of keeping us safe. There has been a whole heck of a lot of evidence that they don't really do a very good job of it. I protest by refusing to just be a quiet compliant consumer, and instead pick the noisiest and least-convenient route to make sure that they're at least as inconvenienced as I am, and that the people in line with me get to see an innocent man being searched like he's a murder suspect, so they'll maybe question the wisdom of the status quo.
Before the x-ray scanners were removed, I opted out both out of health concerns and ideological concerns. The millimeter wave scanners are substantially less worrysome from a health perspective, but I still protest because the entire concept is fundamentally flawed. Our courthouses and police stations still use magnetometers, and we know those are places that will have people who are violent, dangerous, and angry; if the MW machines actually were substantially better, I'd have gone through one when I went down to the courthouse earlier this month. Yet somehow, we have these privacy-invading devices being purchased at astronomical cost to the US taxpayer and put into airports while (potentially more critical) other locations are left untouched. Let's not even begin to discuss the fact that the TSA tends to create a bottleneck where a lot of people are gathered before anyone has been security screened, presenting an extremely soft target for someone who wants to spark terror with a suicide bombing.
Re-reading my comment, I feel that I may have not made something clear - they run their fingers around the inside of your waistband, and they separately use the backs of their hands to feel the buttocks and crotch outside of the pants. They don't stick their hands down your pants and juggle your balls. I don't feel like it's particularly any more invasive than the whole rest of the patdown, but it's the kind of thing that would probably give a survivor of sexual assault a panic attack.
> I can't even begin to imagine what an 'even more thorough search' would be/look/feel like.
It's just more pressure, and they make sure to cover every inch of the search area closely. What they're doing is trying to pick up residue from your clothing that will set off the bomb machine again. If you failed that one, then I suspect you may be detained for questioning and perhaps a much worse search by actual law enforcement, but that's just conjecture - it's never happened to me.
I should clarify that I'm not flat-out against security measures. I appreciate things that keep me safe, and am happy to participate in them when they actually materially improve my safety. My objections are primarily rooted in the opinion that the TSA and its mission do somewhere between "nada" and "jack-all" for Actual Real Security. The number of stories about comically-bad lapses in security at TSA checkpoints over the years is hilarious. They frequently fail penetration tests. An actually-determined attacker could probably bypass them pretty trivially. The entire program is a whole lot of taxpayer money that serves to line the wallets of people connected to Congressmen and to provide a jobs program for unskilled workers.
Our track record on airline safety has improved since 9/11, but that's because of two very specific things: we sealed the cockpit doors, so hijackers cannot physically get at the controls, and we put air marshals with guns on the planes, so that a hijacker has to contend with the possibility that he might attempt to hijack a plane protected by an armed law enforcement officer who will bring his life to a swift and inglorious halt. Additionally, passengers are much more watchful. When Richard Reid attempted to blow up a flight with explosives in his shoes, he was jumped by passengers and beaten into submission. Pre-9/11, I don't know that that would have happened.
> As a brown male who has never been to your country but who would like to visit some day, your comments have unsettled me somewhat. I like to keep a lush beard and I have long hair. Sure, I'm an atheist, but does that even count?
I dearly hope that someday you have the opportunity to visit my country some day without fear of being harassed and intimidated by people because of your skin color or choice in facial hair. I'm genuinely very sorry that it's even a concern, and wish that I could apologize to you with any measure of meaningfulness. I do want to say that you aren't guaranteed to be - you hear about the worst-case scenarios, but thousands of people travel every day without so much as a hitch. I am angry and I protest because I feel that we are losing the liberty that we hold so dear, and I don't want us to become a society where you have to be actively fearful of traveling.
Re: Defeated
#443Re: Defeated
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
..and Russians are just putting what you are lacking into a law.
LekkoscPiwa's comment and your reaction to it are IMO very interesting example of a different perception which can lead to so many misunderstandings. Your comment only makes sense if you include Russia into the term 'Eastern Europe' and technically you are right - Russia is part of Eastern Europe. But I am pretty sure that LekkoscPiwa did not mean it this way - when he said 'we' he almost certainly did not mean also…
The fact that Russia is possibly even more xenophobic than Poland doesn't change much.
I'm Belarussian myself, so well aware of sentiments in the 'hood in either direction. The nuance is not lost on me :)
Re: Defeated
#445Earlier quoted context omitted.
LekkoscPiwa's comment and your reaction to it are IMO very interesting example of a different perception which can lead to so many misunderstandings. Your comment only makes sense if you include Russia into the term 'Eastern Europe' and technically you are right - Russia is part of Eastern Europe. But I am pretty sure that LekkoscPiwa did not mean it this way - when he said 'we' he almost certainly did not mean also…
Well no, I didn't include former USSR for the sake of discussion. Jew hatred in Poland is surprisingly common, despite actual Polish Jews being virtually extinct since WW2. The fact that Russia is possibly even more xenophobic than Poland doesn't change much. I'm Belarussian myself, so well aware of sentiments in the 'hood in either direction. The nuance is not lost on me :)
Go to Arizona or California and tell me if it is difficult to find people who hate Latinos who don't make even such a big minorities there as Jews used to in pre-war Poland.
This has nothing to do with Jews specifically. Look at this how Arabs are treated in France (Paris) or London.
Once a group that has different language, religion, customs, and its own ghettos is large enough - my guess about 1/3 of total population - the natives will react the way the do. Poland or US, doesn't matter.