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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

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Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#441

Post by izacus »

hvb2 wrote: post #351
californical wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s like telling people not to get homeowners insurance for the same reason Like, yes, it’s technically a bad deal. But it’s still worth the extra cost for most people

> But it’s still worth the extra cost for most people. Is it? You charge back over 2% of your transaction volume? If you don't then just removing the middleman will make everyone happier. If you do, I have questions as to why...

If they'd come close to such chargebacks, they'd already be kicked out of the system and blocked.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#442

Post by makeitdouble »

Tehnix wrote: post #374
al_borland wrote: post #193

What does this mean for travel if Visa is not “everywhere you want to be”? I can’t tell if this is going to replace Visa/Mastercard or be offered in addition to Visa/Mastercard to handle transactions for locals while still allowing transactions to be viable for everyone else who might be passing through.

I don't see a way it wouldn't be offered in addition to. Some EU countries (e.g. Denmark) already do something similar where we a national debit card called "DanKort" (mashup of "Danmark" and "Kort" which translates to "Denmark" and "Card"). It typically also has a VISA part to it for usage abroad. All stores accept this as well as VISA/Mastercard since they want to maximize who they can get money for, so it's alread…

> I don't see a way it wouldn't be offered in addition to.

Yes, it will for most nation wide chains, touristic places, and anywhere that has comfortable margins.

For smaller shops and tighter business models, dropping the costlier networks will be the first thing they do. Same way a decent number of shops won't accept Amex, or just no card at all.

Now if we're is cheap and popular enough, there might be more stores getting rid of cash as a reaction.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#443

Post by gordian-mind »

Shalomboy wrote: post #45

I'm legitimately curious how these American payment companies held onto their worldwide dominance for so long. I'm used to seeing the sign at restaurants of all the other cards they accept, but for so long I've only ever seen Amex, Discover, Visa, and Mastercard in folks' hands.

European tech is often atrocious. Every single digital government program in France has been hacked, every social security number is out there, physical addresses tied to crypto wallets, etc.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#444

Post by rescbr »

testing22321 wrote: post #164
somewhatgoated wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIX should be the gold standard for this - it’s works perfectly for all use cases that I can think of. Hell even the homeless people around here take donations in PIX, but you can also buy a house with it. Zero fees involved

> Zero fees involved Won’t someone think of the profits!

Zero fees for an individual, by regulation. Companies pay for PIX usage. Some banks waive these fees, and it is comparable to debit card transaction fees.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#445

Post by tom1337890 »

alsetmusic wrote: post #352

The damage this admin has done to the USA as a whole, so far, is astounding. It's good for Europe to decouple from the USA, but I'm sure the folks at Visa and Mastercard aren't thrilled.

Thank you Trump - I guess?! It's great for Europe to wake up and for pointing out we need to decouple from the US and become more tech independent. It's bad enough that the whole world is financing the debt of the USA and every person therein. I hope, that in the long run, our democratic values and freedom will become more and more attractive. Especially when all other players become autocratic regimes. That is, if we realize this freedom is not a given and we are willing to put in the work.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#446

Post by Fnoord »

mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

It works very good and user-friendly, but iDeal had a disadvantage: chargebacks aren't possible. Whether Wero has the same issue, I do not know.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#447

Post by dingaling »

jen20 wrote: post #300
SkeuomorphicBee wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is by design. It separates the payment processor so it does just that, just payments. It is like money, once you give it to someone else there is no automatic way to fish it back from their pocket to yours. The correct avenue to deal with fraud, bankruptcy and other malicious actor is the small claims court (or civil court, or criminal court). The moment you start burdening the payment processor with the roles o…

That makes it a bad design, since every person you interact with has the potential to be a scumbag and not deliver on what you paid for. "Get a lawyer and sue them" or "Rely on your local consumer advocacy agency" cannot be the answers at the kind of scale that will be enabled. This is the reason I only _ever_ spend money on credit cards, and never use cash or debit cards (European in the US). I've personally had at…

> This is the reason I only _ever_ spend money on credit cards

Which illustrates one of the most prolific examples of regulatory capture.

Credit cards became mainstream because of that protection, which was a triumph for the payment processors. Whatever they spent on lobbying was a bargain.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#448

Post by gpvos »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #182
cfontes wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIX from Brazil is even better, to be honest. But this is a big improvement over online CC payment. I lived in the NL and Brazil, so I can compare the two, and while iDEAL is pretty good, PIX is easier to understand, explain, and deal with. PIX has more variants, you can use it for recurrent payment, split payments, financing, cashout and almost all things a CC can do nowadays. I would say Tikkie is almost as good an…

Nah, BLIK from Poland was there earlier and is in many ways better, Wero was unfairly lobbied for by the old European guard, so most of Eastern Europe walked away. They are now hesitantly joining Wero, supporting it only to downplay and to lobby ECB for an API platform and not for a product.

I've used BLIK once, for an online payment from the Netherlands to Poland, and for that it was terrible. I assume it's much better integrated into the Polish system.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#449

Post by AndrewDucker »

drstewart wrote: post #413
WJW wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America: You need to be more self sufficient and not lean on us so much! Europe: America: NOT LIKE THAT!!!

>America: NOT LIKE THAT!!! Can you post a source supporting this?

The USA is upset about Brazil providing Pix, their local equivalent.

https://restofworld.org/2025/pix-brazil-us-investigation-dig...

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#450

Post by trashb »

BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #296
trashb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non of the functionality that PayPal or other services give What functionality are you looking for exactly? I use paypal to transfer money to other accounts & pay for online shopping, possibly in other valuta. In my opinion Wero (earlier I used IDeal) is easier then paypal for this purpose

> What functionality are you looking for exactly? * Buyer protection * Obfuscation of my banking data (IBAN) * Having access to it with my bank * Not needing to share my contact list At the moment I don't see much improvement over an instant SEPA transaction. Since both parties will see each other's IBAN anyways with Wero I can just give out my IBAN.

> Buyer protection

Wero does introduce some sort of chargebacks and disputes, buy from reputable sellers and otherwise you are still free to use paypal for additional protection (but don't send money as "Friends & Family").

> Obfuscation of my banking data (IBAN)

IBAN is public facing and it is not a problem to share. It is the identifier of your account therefore required to make transfers. Money can't be charged with your IBAN. With paypal you share your e-mail.

> Having access to it with my bank

Your bank is the one that is providing the access to the Wero service, it will pull from or deposit into your bank account.

> Not needing to share my contact list

I don't see how this is required.

The strength of Wero is that it will be a unified friction less way of making digital transfers. It finds a similar place in the market that in the USA is filled by Venmo or Cash app however if you have a bank account you can use it.

I think it speaks volumes that no one within the Netherlands uses Paypal, but iDeal is the de-facto standard for all online payments there.

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