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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#441

Post by mastax »

StillBored wrote: post #166
jfengel wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inventing categories is what the court does. The Constitution is incredibly brief, and gives zero guidance on how to clarify conflicts. It has always been full of "common sense" exceptions, like criminalizing threats (despite the unqualified "freedom of speech" language) or probable cause (police can invade your house if they know you are committing a crime right now). The sum total of these "common sense" exceptions…

The constitution doesn't provide a "common sense" loophole. Much of it is written in absolutist language because that was the actual intention. The amendment process is provided to open "common sense" loopholes if everyone agrees they are common sense, not for the courts to gradually erode the language until the federal goverment is doing things the founders explicitly fought the revolutionary war over. Put another w…

The passage of the alien and sedition acts without constitutional amendment disproves that idea.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#442

Post by Vicinity9635 »

parineum wrote: post #420
Vicinity9635 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you're pretending to be a lawyer and losing an argument I'll highlight the part that answers the question: >"shall not be infringed" and "shall not be violated" do not leave loopholes. It's quite clear.

There's a branch of government who's job is to write laws, who's job is to interpret laws and one who's job is to enforce laws. Which one are you?

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#443

Post by throwjddjdj »

happymellon wrote: post #356
sargun wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ethnicity are you? I went through an airport -- and nobody else got screened except me. What was special about me? I was the only non-white person in the airport. Upon complaining, this was the response: > Random selection by our screening technology prevents terrorists from attempting to defeat the security system by learning how it operates. Leaving out any one group, such as senior citizens, persons with disa…

I used to work with a Kevin and a Mohammed. Whenever we travelled to offsite offices Mohammed 100% of the time was picked for bag check, while Kevin was not picked once. Mohammed was white, and Kevin was black. It was completely racist, and never random.

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#444

Post by Ms-J »

No one should be forced to give an ID for a domestic flight. It always used to be that way. Every day there is huge amount of chipping away at our freedoms.

Someone pointed out amazing advice on how to skip certain checks in this thread, well done.

Any chance you get to regain freedom, by any means, take it.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#445

Post by Ms-J »

caseysoftware wrote: post #269
runako wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." IANAL but I would be very cautious about lying to a federal agent, or anyone acting in a capacity on behalf of a federal agent (this is all of TSA).

Who said I'm lying?

They are only making bad assumptions if they said this.

Any chance one gets to regain freedom, by any method, take it.

In this situation proving someone is lying would be news worthy. You will win in this situation if you stand your ground.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#446

Post by Ms-J »

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #277
cwnyth wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the two comments above yours are poking fun at the guy who is committing a felony by lying to federal agents. They're just making it obvious what he's doing is really shitty, anti-social behavior.

Lying to TSA and other government representatives is patriotic

Exactly. It gets you your freedom back, enables you to what you need to, and undercuts the illegitimate governments authority - all in one!

A major win for the people.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#447

Post by Ms-J »

paxys wrote: post #23

It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…

It was never about security only control of you and everyone else.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#448

Post by ssl-3 »

0x457 wrote: post #362
smelendez wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. With Real ID, the biggest pain for a lot of people is proof of residency. Rich people just print out some combination of a bank statement, a pay stub, and a copy of their mortgage or lease or the electric bill, but poor people may not have much of that. Think of someone staying with family and getting paid by a gig economy job to a Cash App card or just working under the table/doing odd jobs. Once you sta…

You need two documents for proof. It's really not that hard. Poor that can't produce these documents probably can't afford a plane ticket either, so how is it a problem? Y'all have some weird ideas about how poor people are incapable of have two pieces of paper that have: 1) their name 2) their address

If only it were always that easy.

In order for me, myself, to get a Real ID in Ohio, I need to produce documents demonstrating all 5 of the following elements[1]: Full legal name, DOB, legal presence in the US, SSN, and Ohio street address -- with the Ohio street address element requiring two separate documents.

Most of this is easy. I can rummage around in the paperwork pile and find most of what I need.

But the only acceptable document that applies to me (a single white male born in the US who has never had a reason to get a passport) is an original or certified copy of my birth certificate. That's kind of a pain in the ass: I have a copy, and that copy is on the fancy green cardstock the health department uses where I was born, and that copy was good enough to enlist and get paid in the US military, but it's not a certified copy and therefore is not good enough to prove my full name. My original DD214 is also not good enough.

So I'll have to round that up (which will cost me money). And then I'll have to go to the BMV (which costs money and time), and wait in line (which costs more time), and then pay for these documents to be reviewed. Eventually, they'll mail me a new ID.

Achievable? Sure. I'll get it done.

But it's quite clearly more arduous than having "two pieces of paper that have: 1) their name 2) their address", which is rather oversimplified.

---

And meanwhile: Air travel doesn't have to be expensive. In my direct experience, a person can fly from Ohio to Florida and back in cattle class for as little as $37 if they're not picky about dates.

Until last month, that is. This month: It costs an extra $45, or a Real ID.

[1]: https://dam.assets.ohio.gov/image/upload/publicsafety.ohio.g...

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#449

Post by fc417fc802 »

nxobject wrote: post #85
Aurornis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> RealID licenses cost extra where I live. Where is that? I’m curious. Around here, RealID is just what you’re issued when you renew various forms of ID. I don’t even recall an option to get a non-RealID version.

I'm in Oregon, and that's the case - about $30 extra. More people than you think don't have access to supplemental documentation required to meet extra requirements – people who don't have current travel documents, people who've just moved into town, people who don't have current documentation of address (e.g. the homeless, people in the foster care system, etc.) It's pragmatic to have: plenty of people don't or can'…

> More people than you think don't have access to supplemental documentation required to meet extra requirements

I have access but deliberately choose not to provide it. Growing up I was told something about voting with my feet. Not so sure it works very well in practice though.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#450

Post by Shadasz »

tsimionescu wrote: post #417
noduerme wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I would just give them a pass to carry a ceremonial knife, if they could prove they were Sikhs and not someone pretending to be. But I guess that's why we can't have nice things and why the same rules have to apply to everyone. I think most reasonable people understand that they can't preserve every aspect of their personal beliefs or pride in a situation involving the safety of millions of people flying da…

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