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Being poor vs. being broke

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Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#441

Post by danans »

corobo wrote: post #352
dijit wrote: post #125

Even this does a poor job of explaining being poor. The constant open loop on everything you own, terrified to discard anything even if its broken because there are components that might be useful to fix something else; the constant churn of second-hand (and cheap/disposable) things that are already close to death before they come into your possession and- crucially: the crushing weight of knowing that any financial…

> a £50 fine might as well be £50,000- its unpayable, and leads to a sort of doom-spiral of lending to avoid worse consequences. Easily you can end up in unmanageable debt Yup! Bank gave me an overdraft when I was 16. At 37 I'm still in debt connected to that first bit of "free" money. I've never earned above £0, and at this point it's too late to care. They can write me off as a minor loss when I kick it haha

> I've never earned above £0, and at this point it's too late to care

If you have never earned above 0 at age 37, that suggests that you have a personal situation that actually prevents you from working, not so different from a disabled person might face. Just as tragic is the fact that people who do work full time and earn very little also end up in similar debt spirals.

In benevolent societies such people might end up being helped by the social safety net, but in less benevolent societies, they often end up on the streets. There are active experiments in decreasing benevolence right now across many societies.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#442

Post by carlosjobim »

d_silin wrote: post #247
carlosjobim wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nobody's fault for becoming poor. But if you're staying poor (dirt poor) for decades, then there is something you're doing wrong. The other commenter puts it in a rude way, but there's something to it. If you evidently can't take care of yourself, then you shouldn't be given more money. You should be in some kind of institution which takes care of your basic needs.

You are one major sickness and one layoff away from getting into the same situation, often to the point of no return.

I wouldn't say so. A large percentage of the population - double digits - have never had any job security in their lives, or any guarantees whatsoever. We've learnt to adapt and know we can do it again. People aren't allocated 1 job per person for life and if we loose that job we're in the shit for life. Most people know they can get another job.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#443

Post by bombcar »

barbazoo wrote: post #99
qwertox wrote: post #84

> You can’t afford to go to the movies, but will stay home and watch what’s new on Netflix. I never had Netflix nor Spotify and I am not poor. I always thought that having Netflix and Spotify is some kind of luxury. Not a big one, but those services are not cheap, if you're on a tight budget.

If you're a family it's much cheaper to have Netflix, spread these $20 over 4 people a month than going to the movie theater for $100+ every time. These $20/month are already out of reach for many, I realize that.

If you're a poor family you're better off with not having Netflix or go to the movies; you just watch DVDs and stay home.

The underlying problem not talked about in all this is how our entire financial system is built around charging you a bit more than you can bear, but not actually driving you into bankruptcy.

Then a huge percentage of your income goes to interest payments.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#444

Post by msandford »

wat10000 wrote: post #309
wat10000 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the author's membership in the "poor" category is in the past tense.

I poked around their blog some more out of curiosity and I can't figure out what his situation is. In a year-old article about burnout and vacation, he mentions burning out from a job in marketing, and ends by saying therapy isn't an option because he lives under the poverty line and can't even afford to get vital blood work done. Maybe this hit so hard that it actually made him unable to do more remunerative work. B…

"I could stop being poor, I just don't like the tradeoff."

I feel like this is an ugly truth, but still a truth. It's also very ugly.

For some people there's no tradeoff on how much they have to suffer to get some financial security because they already have it. Some people have to suffer a bit but quickly hit escape velocity. Some people never stop suffering. It's terrible.

I think Dave Ramsey has many annoying qualities but his "sometimes you have to act crazy to get out of it" is basically correct even if it's very, very uncomfortable IMO.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#445

Post by carlosjobim »

relaxing wrote: post #329
carlosjobim wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My solution is boring, but it works for the individual who is in that situation: Go and work somewhere where you are provided food and board and a salary. Not only do you physically get yourself out of the environment which has dragged you down, you can also cut out expenses such as rent and even transportation. Which is huge. Yes, it's not a fun solution. It won't make you rich. But it will take you out of being dir…

I think implicit in the anti-poverty argument is individuals shouldn’t have to take a vow of poverty. So the monastery is out. Not everyone is physically cut out for the merchant marines. This is also inconveniently ignores OP’s family. Not everyone wants to join the military, but that feels like it’s getting somewhere… What if the government had other jobs that paid food and shelter?

My suggestions can help some people, but not everybody. Because everybody is different. Let's continue complaining instead then?

But I've worked in places like this with people who were deaf and people who had limps, and people with a ton of other problems. And hundreds of thousands of people who have families work in the merchant navy to support them, or in other similar work places.

Sometimes (almost all the time) trying to talk about things on HN feels like having to argue that it is indeed possible to fry an egg or boil a cup of coffee...

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#446

Post by zahlman »

hexator wrote: post #37

Understanding poverty starts with empathy. People thinking that "poor is a mindset" are lacking in that. It's not that simple! You can't just mind your way out of poverty! This isn't a math problem.

Saying that something "is a mindset" does not imply that one could just "mind oneself" out of it, anyway. Brains don't work that way.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#448

Post by mg41 »

losvedir wrote: post #431

I'm privileged to have never had to worry about this, growing up comfortably middle to upper middle class. With that said, I have a perpetual point of confusion here, likely due to my own blindspots and something I don't want to ask in person because it's not nice: is it an issue of budgeting? Take someone who makes $15/hr and someone who makes $16/hr. Both are poor. Both live paycheck to paycheck, have no savings, e…

They didn't earn the exact amount of money they needed—they didn't have enough money to meet their expenses more likely. And likewise one therefore can't save and buy better stuff. And thus the cycle of poverty continues.

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#449

Post by ge96 »

bluGill wrote: post #440
ge96 wrote: post #297

I'm "low-rich" (middle class?) poor eg. I have a six-fig job but I also have almost six-fig of debt, so I have after paying all my bills (mostly debt) almost nothing left. But I have an apt/cool cheap car, toys like 2nd hand computers/cameras. I've been in debt for the last 15 years since I went into college. I don't eat canned food often actually trying to fast as it's hard to not gain weight when I spend most of my…

That is the way it should be. Well more or less, you didn't state what your debt is from, some are better than others. College debt can be a good investment long term (depends on the degree). Buying a house is a good long term investment if you live there for a long time. You should save for retirement and a "rainy day". However remember you can't take it with you. If you have the above savings, an extra penny, and s…

I didn't finish my degree but I got lucky I picked up programming/built up a good work history

yeah once I get to $0 net worth I'll start saving/investing

Re: Being poor vs. being broke

#450

Post by anthomtb »

The article resonated but I disagree with his terminology. To me, broke and poor are exactly the same thing. He can define them differently if he wants, of course, but what he calls "broke" I would call "feeling poor" and what he calls "poor" I would call "being poor".

I grew up in circumstances that were very much "broke"/"feeling poor" and it took a long time to learn that we really weren't poor. Some of the simple actions that are mis-directed towards the truly poor (second job, DIY car/home maintenance, better financial planning) would have elevated our circumstances quite a bit. Not to the point of being rich, but definitely to less precarious circumstances. And, selfishly, I would likely not have spent my childhood feeling like an impoverished outcast from my peers.

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