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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#441
post #303

There is a lot in here but turning a non-profit into a for-profit definitely should be challenged. Otherwise why wouldn't everyone start as a non-profit, develop your IP, and then switch to 'for-profit' mode once you got something that works? You don't pay income taxes and your investors get write offs.

I'm not at all clear on what a "not for profit" status even does, tax wise. In any jurisdiction. They are still able to actually make a profit (and quite often will, because careful balancing of perfect profit and loss is almost impossible and loss is bad), and I thought those profits were still taxed because otherwise that's too obvious as a tax dodge, it's just that profit isn't their main goal?

It certainly can be confusing. I generally use the term "nonprofit" to mean a corporate entity formed under a nonprofit corporation act, e.g., one derived from the Model Nonprofit Corporation Act. This says nothing about the tax status of the entity, and unless other circumstances also apply the entity would be subject to taxes in the same way as a for profit company on its net income. But many nonprofits also take steps to qualify for one of several tax exemptions, the most well known being section 501(c)(3). Not all of the familiar tax advantages apply to all tax exempt organizations. For example, donations to an organization exempt under 501(c)(3) are deductible by the donor, but donations to a 501(c)(4) are not.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#442
post #418
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no reliable evidence that AGI is an existential threat, nor that it is even achievable within our lifetimes. Current OpenAI products are useful and technically impressive but no one has shown that they represent steps towards a true AGI.

There's plenty of reliable evidence. It's just not conclusive evidence. But a lot of people including AI researchers now think we are looking at AGI in a relatively short time with fairly high odds. AGI by the OpenAI economic-viability definition might not be far off at all; companies are trying very very hard to get humanoid robots going and that's the absolute most obvious way to make a lot of humans obsolete.

None of that constitutes reliable evidence. Some of the comments you see from "AI researchers" are more like proclamations of religious faith than real scientific analysis.

“He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.”

Show me a robot that can snake out a plugged toilet. The people who believe that most jobs can be automated are ivory-tower academics and programmers who have never done any real work in their lives.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#443
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From: Elon Musk To: Sam Altman Subject: AI Lab Agree on all On Jun 24, 2015, at 10:24 AM, Sam Altman wrote: 1. The mission would be to create the first general Al and use ti for individual empowerment ie, the distributed version of the future that seems the safest. More generally, safety should be a first-class requirement. 2. I think we'd ideally start with a group of 7-10 people, and plan to expand from there. We h…

Wait, Peter Thiel is/was heavily involved in YC?

yes for about 2 years (2015 - 2017) as a part time partner

https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/welcome-peter

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not as big as Halliburton, I feel it’s the opposite the government isn’t detaining these obvious frauders and now they run amock.

Halliburton was protected by the government because their top dogs were literally running the country. It's a very different scenario from OpenAI.

> Halliburton was protected by the government because their top dogs were literally running the country.

Let's not give Sam Altman any ideas!

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#446
post #303

There is a lot in here but turning a non-profit into a for-profit definitely should be challenged. Otherwise why wouldn't everyone start as a non-profit, develop your IP, and then switch to 'for-profit' mode once you got something that works? You don't pay income taxes and your investors get write offs.

I'm not at all clear on what a "not for profit" status even does, tax wise. In any jurisdiction. They are still able to actually make a profit (and quite often will, because careful balancing of perfect profit and loss is almost impossible and loss is bad), and I thought those profits were still taxed because otherwise that's too obvious as a tax dodge, it's just that profit isn't their main goal?

NAL, my understanding: The profits aren't taxed, and the shareholders aren't allowed to take dividends out (there effectively are no "shareholders" per se, just donors); all profits have to be reinvested back into the business.

In the case of many/most (honest) non-profits, the operating costs are paid out of a combination of the dividends of an invested principal (endowment, having been previously donated by donors) and grants/current donations. Any operating profit could then be returned to the endowment, allowing the organization to maintain higher operating costs indefinitely, thus giving the organization more capacity to further their mission.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of their charter is not to make money, it's to develop AI for the benefit of all, which I interpret to mean putting control and exploitation of AI in the hands of the public. The reality: we don't even get public LLM models, let alone source code, while their coffers overfloweth. Awesome for OpenAI and their employees! Every else goes without. Public benefit my arse.

I've been really hung up on the irony of "Open" part of the OpenAI name. I figure "Open" must mean "open for business". What is open about OpenAI?

The most oppressive regimes have "Democratic" or "People's" in the official name of their country.

Someone took inspiration from this.

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