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Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node

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Re: Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node

#441

The eternal struggle. Information wants to be free, and then people use those freedoms to do the most screwed up things imaginable, and people like this pay the price. It’s a damn shame how the original cyberpunk dream played out. We could’ve had a world where companies couldn’t do anything about people using their ideas. Instead we get one where you can’t even be anonymous without rubbing elbows with child predators…

>downloading maps and trying to make a way to view them locally

Before smartphones this was common. Standalone gps units had maps locally stored. Some of the ones mounted in car dashboards stored them on an internal DVD. I used to have to drive a lot for work long before they were commonly built in to cars and I had an aftermarket one mounted on my dashboard, a little 2” monochrome display. Storage was tight, and I’d have to hook it up to my computer to swap out map sets if I was traveling further than usual.

Re: Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node

#442
Ok, so if one is guilty of transmitting or carrying illegal content merely through providing the medium of transmission, wouldn't that mean the ISPs involved, and the owners of the telephone cables, are just as guilty? Wouldn't any postman, and for example the USPS, be guilty if a private individual posted something illegal?

Re: Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don’t know how you think the courts work but your roommates looking at you does not end up convicting anybody. Used as perhaps part of justifying probable cause or convincing people to say enough to do a more thorough search, sure.

A jury trial of your peers is a rare thing these days. This is how it would go down:

The investigator says "who's been downloading CP?" and everyone looks at you. Probably because you're the weirdo internet geek among the family/roommates. They now have a suspect, and nothing you say then will convince them otherwise. They interview everyone separately leading the conversation to get statements about circumstantial things that out of context don't make you look good.

It's enough to get a search & data warrant. They take your phone, your PC, all your hard drives, and pull every website you've ever accessed and every email you've ever received or sent. They trawl through this for anything out of place, or which can be construed out of context to be something they can pin on you. This is no longer about CP--they "know" you are guilty, but the fact that they can't find any CP on your computer just means your smart enough to know how to hide it. Now they're just trying to find something to stick to put you away. The Al Capone nail-him-on-tax-evasion-or-whatever-sticks strategy.

You don't hear anything for a while so you think this whole thing is behind you, and you're just pissed you can't get your PC and phone back. Then they show up and arrest you. Your lawyer explains there are five felony charges against you, including the CP thing, and you're looking at 30 years to life where the survival time of a CP convict in the general population is about 3 days. The evidence is flimsy and you can fight these charges in court, but it'll cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and your success at winning all counts is really up to the whims of the judge and/or jury. The DA offers a plea deal: 3 years house arrest, community service, and registration on the sex offenders list, but critically: no prison. The weekend is coming and you're going to be shipped out from the local police lockbox to county jail. The DA is dragging his feet on getting you into protective custody. You sign the plea deal and walk out alive, but fucked for life.

Welcome to the modern criminal justice system.

[This more or less happened to a college roommate of mine (not CP though), and a Tor developer I knew through work.]

Re: Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a crime. Maintaining continual access to every major vpn provider increases the probability of getting caught breaking the law towards one while continually risking the methods required to acquire such access each time your implant is discovered. If you are using unknown exploits not passed on to relevant software projects each discovery further risks said exploit being discovered then used against us individual…

> continual access to every major vpn provider increases the probability of getting caught Could you point out one example where CIA/NSA faced any real consequences after being caught doing something shady?

Can you please provide examples where they maintained continual access via hacking legal operations instead of serving entities with paperwork?

Re: Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node

#445
post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which vpn was no-log-but-logging? I was shopping around for an alternative after mullvad blocked port forwarding, but it seems like no one else is as trustworthy. Not that I need it for my “attempt to port forward smash ultimate from within crummy hospital internet” purposes, but hey, principle of the thing and all that.

tl;dr if you want your network to be private, maybe don’t pay a saas to do it. Your ISP already tracks ingress and egress.

This is really the unfortunate truth. >90% of global ISP's not only collect but also sell netflow metadata commercially. Nanosecond timestamps, packet sizes, source IPs, destination IP's. Doesn't matter what VPN provider you use, whether you're using Tor, how many residential proxies you're routing through via a complex proxychains config... commercial entities can correlate virtually all of it.

Team Cymru is one such buyer of bulk netflow metadata from ISP's (and their upstream providers) around the globe, who do all of the correlation work on their side, and then sell it, under product names like Pure Signal Recon (formerly Augury)... including to law enforcement agencies and the US military...

There are also no laws dictating that ISP's must disclose whether or not they are selling that information, and they have no commercial incentive to choose to honestly disclose that they do.

If your adversary is NSA/FBI/US Army, or any other deep-pocketed nation-state-level adversaries who Team Cymru is willing to sell to, the safest assumption is that there is absolutely nothing you can do to obscure the origin of your traffic with 100% certainty.

Re: Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node

#446
One of the concerning problems with the current judicative system is that most judges have no idea about modern technology because of their age. My father asked me today if I'm also working on "AI"... I told him that artificial intelligence doesn't exist and that it's a hype about software that's really good at imitating intelligence.

Re: Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node

#448
post #86
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with Sealand/HavenCo and international waters/micronations more broadly. Even if no country with guns chooses to take direct action, it takes very little--if they care enough--to cut off supplies and any meaningful communications.

Does anyone remember https://wired.com/2007/01/the-pirate-bay-2/ ?

Yes, until recently I worked for one of the principals of Sealand. Small world.

Re: Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node

#449

Wow, the website of his hosting company[1] is, eh, extremly honest: > Further, as Kosovo is an extremely corrupt country, we are able to bribe both executive and judicative as well as getting information about court orders and raids before execution, enabling us to move servers out of the affected location, protecting our clients in any situation. Our excellent Serbian connections enable us to also move servers cross…

Run by a cousin of Honest Achmed[1] maybe

[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647959

Re: Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node

#450
post #298
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Running a tor node is a thankless thing one can choose to do. Nevertheless I did for years. I don't do it anymore. It's hard to determine tor's net-value to society, since it's such a double bladed sword. I'm not sure it's something deserving of thanks.

This is the point where you need to check your privilege. I used tor when living in a dictatorship to find out things which would destroy the moral fabric of society, such as information about lgbtqia+ issues, what condoms are, pop music and news that the government didn't want to spread.

I'm sorry you had to live through that, and I'm glad you had tools to subvert that oppression. I'm relieved that it sounds like you've escaped from that situation.

It was not my intent to assert any privilege, and it was my intent to acknowledge that scenario. If I may provide some clarification:

Marriam webster[0] defines 'double edged sword' to mean

> something that has or can have both favorable and unfavorable consequences

The use of Tor in the scenario you describe is one of the two blades (edges) I was referring to in my use of 'double bladed sword' -- the altruistic use case for which Tor absolutely should exist

The other side of the blade however, it's also used to facilitate terrible acts of abuse, notably to children (as demonstrated by the article) -- the destructive use case for which Tor absolutely should not exist.

It leaves Tor in a morally ambiguous place to me. It's not inherently bad or good. There are situations where it can be used for great good, and others when it can be used for great evil. Those situations would exist with or without Tor. I don't know if I should be thanking anyone maintaining it any more than I would thank an arms dealer.

[0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/double-edged%20sw...

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