Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#441

Post by machina_ex_deus » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 11:28 PM UTC

synetic wrote: post #430

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And my general experience with anti vaxers is that they generally look into more resources and research and put much more thoughts into their decisions than a regular person. Which I generally view as a positive quality. I put much more value on the process by which a person reached his decisions than whether they were correct in one particular instance. Whether I agree with their final conclusion is irrelevant, I ca…

And my general experience with anti vaxers is that they generally look into more resources and research and put much more thoughts into their decisions than a regular person. Which I generally view as a positive quality. I put much more value on the process by which a person reached his decisions than whether they were correct in one particular instance. Ah. The, “they did their research” and “read lots of words” ret…

There are no right questions, only right answers. A question, by definition, isn't right or wrong. That's why it's a question, not an answer.

The very first step to being an intelligent person is not being afraid to ask questions.

The second step is trying to understand it even if you might reach the wrong result.

Only if you passed those first two steps you even have the hope of answering the question correctly.

And even a child can prove that 1+1=2, and if you're such an NPC you think it's hard to prove, I honestly find flat earthers more intelligent.

Ironically, you're acting like such a bot that you're actually quite good at contradicting my point. You're begging the question (like "why are vaccines effective"). You don't look for understanding but for knowledge to remember then repeat.

I always value more the person who tried and failed than the person who never tried. I don't think a layperson can conduct academic research, but I think they can try to understand.

And I think that those who tried to understand yet reached the wrong conclusion are still much better than those who never tried.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#442

Post by the-printer » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 11:32 PM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #400

personjerry wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50 years ago humans weren't prepared for a smartphone, internet "post-connected" world and here we are. We adapt and grow.

And before that people had worries about TV(dancing and rock and roll), and radio (war of the worlds), multiple music related scares sprinkled throughout.

This is a popular rebuttal and I don’t think that it’s a good one.

The detrimental effects of the media forms you’ve listed are better considered in ways other than through events that themselves are (ironically) pop culture tropes today (moral panic over music, the “war of the worlds” panic myth).

It’s hard to even compare technology as pervasive as AI, smartphones and social media to TV and music (which are pervasive in their own right by definition, but not so much by comparison). The former is capable of subsuming and manipulating the forms of the latter and its effects are far more direct than the latter’s in respect to the present age.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#443

Post by southwesterly » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 11:37 PM UTC

highwaylights wrote: post #404

pjerem wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No hasty conclusions. We switched to this always connected world only 10-15 years ago and I think we are far from having seen all the consequences. Algorithmic bubbles, mass surveillance, addictive algorithms and applications are fairly recent and we can already see really disgusting consequences. Our civilization is resilient so it takes time to erode but since a few years, I have hard time imagining a positive tech…

The sum of all human knowledge in every pocket and all we use it for is to view fake photos of fake people living their fake lifestyles. We were gonna cure cancer and explore space. It’s shameful.

The most successful scientists, engineers, developers and designers are trying to persuade more people to press a button to buy a thing.

We could be in space.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#444

Post by Aerbil313 » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 11:39 PM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #429

Aerbil313 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the easiest thing ever. Just look around to people, or use a smartphone yourself. It’s hard to see if you are too addicted to the amusement matrix to see it though. In that case just read the recent research of Jonathan Haidt.

Quite frankly, he looks like everything I would expect from a pop psychologist attached to a business school. The Hetrodox Academy he founded has this criticism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterodox_Academy "According to Vox's Zack Beauchamp, Heterodox Academy advances conservative viewpoints on college campuses by playing into or presenting the argument that such views are suppressed by left-wing bias or politica…

My primary point was you shouldn’t need research to know that we aren’t well adapted. Just look at yourself! I myself have heart problems, severe myopia, occasional brain fog and attention deficit at age 18! I’m not well adapted. No one is.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#445

Post by chmod775 » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 11:43 PM UTC

generic92034 wrote: post #423

dr_dshiv wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have visual dreams? If I say “pink elephant,” you don’t one? Or better yet, if i say “Dumbo,” you don’t see the ears? You don’t hear songs in your head? If I write “I’ll be back” you don’t hear it now in a thick German accent? Inconceivable! (As they say)

> If I write “I’ll be back” you don’t hear it now in a thick German accent? Now you have made me curious. Where would the thick German accent be, when pronouncing those words? I can imagine other sentences (anything with "th", for example) where you would hear a German accent. But with "I'll be back"?

It's a Terminator quote: https://youtu.be/tYc2jQaM8gM?t=34

Maybe "in Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice" would've been more accurate, since I can't detect anything particularly German in the way it's said either.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#446

Post by salawat » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 11:46 PM UTC

southwesterly wrote: post #443

highwaylights wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sum of all human knowledge in every pocket and all we use it for is to view fake photos of fake people living their fake lifestyles. We were gonna cure cancer and explore space. It’s shameful.

The most successful scientists, engineers, developers and designers are trying to persuade more people to press a button to buy a thing. We could be in space.

...Investors don't fund that. They chase yield. The eternal chase for the bigger sucker is way more fruitful on earth than in space.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#447

Post by synetic » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 11:48 PM UTC

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #441

synetic wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And my general experience with anti vaxers is that they generally look into more resources and research and put much more thoughts into their decisions than a regular person. Which I generally view as a positive quality. I put much more value on the process by which a person reached his decisions than whether they were correct in one particular instance. Ah. The, “they did their research” and “read lots of words” ret…

There are no right questions, only right answers. A question, by definition, isn't right or wrong. That's why it's a question, not an answer. The very first step to being an intelligent person is not being afraid to ask questions. The second step is trying to understand it even if you might reach the wrong result. Only if you passed those first two steps you even have the hope of answering the question correctly. And…

A child can’t prove 1+1 = 2 because a child doesn’t know enough mathematics to prove it. Doesn’t even understand the basics of mathematical logic or set theory. You know so little about what it means to prove 1+1=2 that you think proving this is easy. Your grasp on the limits of your mathematical knowledge is greatly lacking.

There are no right questions, only right answers.

A point that does not pertain to what I said. I said nothing about “right” questions. There are dumb questions though. There are insightful questions. There are probing questions. There are nonsensical questions too. Like this question, “If vaccines are good for us then why do we have a bicameral legislative branch?”

A person not trained in virology or microbiology is absolutely unqualified to discern the difference between good information and bad information on the topic of vaccines. Such a person can’t possibly do anything that can be reasonably ascribed to “having done the research”. A person who has “done the research” and concludes that vaccines are bad is a fool no matter how many thousands of words or thoughts they devoted to the topic.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#448

Post by salawat » Wed, Jun 21, 2023, 11:52 PM UTC

aerfio wrote: post #381

mrtranscendence wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems insane to me. I'm always chattering away up there, I can't imagine it otherwise.

For me it's insane that some people "talk" to themselves in their heads, expressing your ideas as words seems so slow in comparison to "thinking in ideas"

Your thinking in ideas is you thinking in your own internal mental vernacular.

What do you do when it comes time to get your point across to others? That's my Achilles heel. If people aren't prepared to really dig in and go through the motions/look things up and vonnect or pick up ideas that I have (that are the sum of many years diving esoteric topics), I might as well just throw my hands up and just do whatever myself. As it's generally a shorter time to materialization than trying to explain it.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#449

Post by listenallyall » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 12:11 AM UTC

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #383

legendofbrando wrote: post #326

Counter point: sure they are. Humans are highly adaptable and like other changes to information availability in the past they will adapt. This is what societal norms and cultural memes are for. “Don’t believe everything you hear” “Don’t believe what you see on TV” “if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.” These are all ways that the human species uses memes and cultural norms to teach ourselves how not to f…

Disinformation is the narrative constructed by crumbling authorities of mainstream media desperately trying to preserve their power. You might think like their narrative is "think critically, and consider everything critically". But the actual message is, your fellow humans are stupid, they fall for misinformation and fake sources. Ignore all alternative sources of information and most importantly, do not trust your…

I don't disagree but I'd offer an alternative reason for being: "disinformation" is the prism through which censorship becomes acceptable.

People, as a whole, are still against censorship in its raw form, silencing people, burning books, etc. However once a book or video or idea is labeled "disinformation" it becomes dangerous, which means (according to the people doing the labeling) that NOT removing/eliminating it would be irresponsible or harmful.

Re: Humans aren’t mentally ready for an AI-saturated ‘post-truth world’

#450

Post by subsection1h » Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 12:18 AM UTC

legendofbrando wrote: post #326

Counter point: sure they are. Humans are highly adaptable and like other changes to information availability in the past they will adapt. This is what societal norms and cultural memes are for. “Don’t believe everything you hear” “Don’t believe what you see on TV” “if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.” These are all ways that the human species uses memes and cultural norms to teach ourselves how not to f…

Most humans aren't even ready for the Internet as it has existed for decades.

Thirty years ago, we were discussing science papers on Usenet. I recall writing a message expressing optimism about a future in which everyone uses the Internet to consume high quality information directly from relevant specialists, rather than low quality information from nonspecialists. For example, I imagined Americans basing their voting decisions on an understanding of public policy issues developed by reading the journals of the American Economic Association, the American Society of Health Economists, the American Society of Criminology, the American Geophysical Union, the National Academy of Sciences, etc.

Instead, Donald Trump was elected president.