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US aircraft shoots down new airborne object over Canada

bbc.com

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Re: US aircraft shoots down new airborne object over Canada

#441

Post by localplume »

logicalmind wrote: post #397
jeswin wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all its flaws, I'd take a democracy over the Soviets in the 80s, or CCP/North Korea today. I can't imagine what the world would have looked like if the Soviets had won the cold war, or if the CCP wins the next.

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -John Kenneth Galbraith

cute quote, but meaningless. ask anyone who lived in a communist/ex-soviet state which is better. also why [over 100,000 citizens of east germany](https://www.berlin.de/mauer/en/history/victims-of-the-wall/) tried to escape, many dying in their attempts. its without a doubt which is better.

Re: US aircraft shoots down new airborne object over Canada

#444

Post by Jabbles »

gre345t34 wrote: post #406
Julesman wrote: post #393

For anyone who wants a bit of entirely factual context COMPLETELY absent from mainstream reporting. US Military to Use High-Altitude Balloons Against China, Russia: Report https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/07/06/us-military-balloo...

The context is that US is developing high altitude balloons for detecting hyper-sonic weapons. Developing a technology and actively using in another country's airspace are quite different things, so it's not really that surprising that articles don't find it important to include.

They wouldn't tell us if they were, that information would almost certainly be highly classified.

Compare the balloons with this technology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird#Opera...

Re: US aircraft shoots down new airborne object over Canada

#445

Post by nmeofthestate »

nop_slide wrote: post #205
detrites wrote: post #77

Is there a plausible explanation as to why the US government has not announced objects 2 & 3 are balloons, if they are balloons? They call them "objects", yet must know what they are. They wouldn't randomly missile unknowns. If it's for reasons of secrecy, why announce it at all? The second one was in the middle of nowhere, it could easily have been ignored, or dismissed as a military exercise if anyone had made a fu…

There’s also a 4th over Montana right now.

Turned out to be a radar anomaly AIUI.

Re: US aircraft shoots down new airborne object over Canada

#446

Post by nmeofthestate »

65a wrote: post #366
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #291

China seems to be testing the US air defense system, is this a sign that China is getting serious over Taiwan?

I think so; the volume of comments implying that either: 1. The US is just amplifying this to justify a war 2. The balloons are totally civilian 3. Aliens Strike me as a relatively coarse influence campaign, notable mainly for its volume. Not sure if the ramp up is to save face, or part of a larger effort. Similar efforts were notable before Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

You could be right about that, but Occam's razor (there's lots of morons on the internet) is also a plausible explanation. Maybe a bit of both.

I suspect a lot of "disinformation" by hostile parties just serves to provide the idiots with material that appeals to them, and they run with it.

Re: US aircraft shoots down new airborne object over Canada

#447

Post by irthomasthomas »

mastax wrote: post #131
throwaway4good wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

From what I understand: - the balloon was required to file a flight plan or have an ADS-B transponder - the balloon did not file a flight plan or have an ADS-B transponder So either the balloon's operator didn't know about the requirements, which seems unlikely given its apparent sophistication, or the operator was deliberately hiding the presence of the balloon, in which case I think it's reasonable to call it a spy…

Looking on from UK this all seems like a big joke. Slow moving, massive balloons, visible for hundreds of miles are sophisticated spying apparatus? But all the previous encounters over the years have just been unremarkable weather balloons?

Re: US aircraft shoots down new airborne object over Canada

#448

Post by irthomasthomas »

BobbyJo wrote: post #120
throwaway4good wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you honestly think shooting down a balloon in your own airspace is an aggressive act?

Yes. Given that they have allowed free passage of such weather balloons for decades previously.

Re: US aircraft shoots down new airborne object over Canada

#449

Post by jasmer »

ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #431
rgbrenner wrote: post #38

I think China erred by sending such a large balloon that was visible to the naked eye, causing the American public to demand it be shot down. There's no hard rule about where national airspace ends and space begins.. a lot of times they fly too high for planes to reach, and under certain circumstances balloons are allowed through national airspace.. so if the balloon isn't causing a problem (like being a hazard to ai…

We are totally clueless about the PRC's objective to say whether they erred. One plausible (though entirely speculative) explanation could be they wanted the US to react this way. Now we will waste our military resources responding to these balloons and they in turn will learn about our military readiness. They could be intentionally probing and start sending smaller and smaller balloons to figure out where our detec…

It doesn't matter what their 'objectives' are really.

Yeah they are not worried about our 'detection limits' and definitely not 'wasting our resources'.

They might possibly be hoping to pick up some F22 signatures or something like that but even then very unlikely. They have ships that can do that.

And given the 'free publicity' the China Hawks are going to get (not quite 'Sputnik Moment' but a bit like that) I suggest it can't bode well for them, unless are playing real 3D chess and some internal guy is trying to get America to 'wake up' so as to prevent a war!

It's definitely a wierd one.

Re: US aircraft shoots down new airborne object over Canada

#450

Post by CyanBird »

rgbrenner wrote: post #38

I think China erred by sending such a large balloon that was visible to the naked eye, causing the American public to demand it be shot down. There's no hard rule about where national airspace ends and space begins.. a lot of times they fly too high for planes to reach, and under certain circumstances balloons are allowed through national airspace.. so if the balloon isn't causing a problem (like being a hazard to ai…

>...because 1) the public demands it;

An appropriate quote to the situation

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”

- Edward Bernays, Propaganda 1927

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