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I hate what video games have become

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Re: I hate what video games have become

#441

Post by noahtallen »

badsectoracula wrote: post #225
madrox wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people naively think of moves like this as pure money grabs and don’t appreciate that a lot of these moves are out of survival…especially for games like Rocket League that require a sufficient player base to even be a viable live service game.

Well, Rocket League doesn't need to be a "viable live service game", it could just be a regular multiplayer game that gives you a client and server executable to run your own. It isn't like not being a live service game killed Quake 3, for example.

I guess it depends what you mean by need. Many multiplayer games (like AoE2) have switched to a hosted server approach because it’s better for performance and matchmaking. I mean, thinking back 15 years, non-LAN multiplayer was not very good at all. Even LAN multiplayer could be hard to set up. Even today, it’s fairly limited (especially since your upload speed is probably severely limited). But hosted servers for everything have been fantastic. Multiplayer FPS games have extremely good performance. Network issues for games like AoE2 aren’t nearly as prevalent.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#442

Post by oneoff786 »

> Can you imagine if other art mediums where this ridiculous? Like you are watching Avengers End game in Netflix and they ask you if you wanna pay 5 dollars more to watch Captain America use his well known outfit instead of regular clothes?

I would happily have this be an option if it meant that Netflix was free. I wouldn’t spend a dime.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#443

Post by gigaflop »

paulmd wrote: post #419
qwery wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole 'preying on the vulnerable' thing kind of puts me off. But I want to respond to this: > The items that you buy have absolutely no impact on gameplay and are just visuals Cosmetic items are not just visual though. They are real elements in the game. Cosmetic items are interactive. They are unlockable, collectable, wearable items. Further, visuals do impact the gameplay. You could argue about the difference b…

> Monetisation strategies like microtransactions, loot boxes, etc. are also part of the game. However, the goal of such parts is not aligned with that of the others. The game is compromised by the introduction of the monetisation strategies. Yup, I think this gets lost in the "visual-only cosmetics are fine/gameplay-affecting is bad" position. The problem is that in most cases, even if the cosmetic is purely visual,…

If you're at the pro-level, then why does cosmetic choice matter? If it's actually a competitive environment, with people of similar skill levels, then you should be able to have some amount of trust in the skills of other players.

If I were on an actual team of people, I'd expect cosmetics to only matter for at-a-glance identification of a specific player.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#444

Post by gigaflop »

imiric wrote: post #179
therouwboat wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Are you surprised that people don’t just wear monochrome black shirts in real life?" No and thats why its silly to say rocket league items have no impact on gameplay, ofcourse its nicer play with hot wheels car that has animated decals than grey corolla. I would like game to be more like "if you get this good, you get these cool items" instead of something like "if we put paid rewards right next to free rewards, the…

> now it feels like I'm being manipulated to give money to somebody who owns rocket league. Epic Games. Why are we surprised by this when they saw a cash cow when they bought it, and have done nothing but turn it into another Fortnite? I think this type of game needs its own genre. Fortnite, RL, GTA Online, Warzone... They all follow the same model of "build a good multiplayer experience and "support it" perpetually…

"Live Service" or "Games as a Service" may be the vocab you're looking for.

The game exists as a monetization engine. Some amount of fresh content is required to keep feeding the machine, but the goal is generally to let the machine run while dropping in bits of content and purchasable junk for the players to consume.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#445

Post by noahtallen »

jeegsy wrote: post #298
bootloop wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absurd. So you also don't use any software products which are a) free to use or b) habe a free tier?

I dont think an f2p game and your typical "open-source" software have anywhere near the same business model.

I don’t think they meant OSS per-se. I mean, compare Google services with a popular f2p game like Valorant. Google mines your data to target advertisements at you on a psychological level. In Valorant, you can spend money to make your gun look cooler.

I think the latter business model is very respectable because it’s not sneaky and it isn’t manipulating me nearly as much. You can have hardly any money at all, play on a crappy computer, and still have a huge amount of fun in the game. You could even be very competitive. And all for free! Not even at a cost to your privacy! And you can optionally “donate” money to the project if you want to support the game and get a neat cosmetic. How is that not a great business model for me as a consumer?

Re: I hate what video games have become

#446

Post by ianbutler »

Counter points: literally every indie game, Elden Ring, Tiny Tina's Wonderland, God of War, all of Nintendo (they have other issues though) and the literally hundreds of triple A games that aren't live service. I'm quite sure I'm missing a lot, but these are just top of mind.

They've chosen a very narrow definition of video games to be disappointed over.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#447

Post by oneoff786 »

LargeWu wrote: post #403
cheerioty wrote: post #165

I feel like Rocket League is like the smallest offender. What really shocked me when I discovered that like 99% of FIFA streams were about loot pack openings these days, not actually anyone playing/enjoying the game. And when they dare to do so anyway, their live viewer count drops right away. Also in this case it’s pure gambling, as you don’t know what you’ll get with any buy. Edit: People tried to fight this in cou…

FIFA is one of the worst offenders, because it's not just cosmetic. There's a constant flood of player cards of escalating ability, and you have to either keep grinding for objectives, or drop tons of cash, just to stay competitive. I've quit playing because of it because it just stopped being fun, even as a casual player.

How bad can this really be without ceasing to be a realistic feeling game? Like I would imagine you’ve got just a few stats like speed, endurance, ball handling and kicking accuracy.

What does the game look like with base F2P characters vs top tier characters? Are they just laughably faster on the field?

Re: I hate what video games have become

#448

Post by ihuman »

wink wrote: post #221
wodenokoto wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super Mario Run, on top of being a great game at a great price is basically single payment f2p. And most people didn’t get that you could buy it and not worry about needing to buy berries or diamonds for real world money. Not worry about your child spending hundreds of real world dollars when playing on your phone. People just hated the fact that they had to pay for the cheapest priced Mario game ever.

It's based on the platform. Nobody would've bat an eye at a Switch or PC game for an upfront cost, but asking 10$ for a mobile game was kinda unheard of. I think they misjudged the market response there. I can't say I'm not biased here, I basically hate 95% of all the mobile games I ever tried, or at least stopped playing after an hour - so a 10$ purchase for me would simply never happen, because I don't like the pla…

> but asking 10$ for a mobile game was kinda unheard of

Ironically, this used to be the norm when the iPhone's app store came out. For example, Super Monkey Ball was $10 in 2008. Over time, there was a race to the bottom, and then F2P became the norm when Apple introduced IAP.

Re: I hate what video games have become

#449

Post by Hasu »

auto wrote: post #372
jimmyjazz14 wrote: post #363

Over the last few years I have gotten hundred of hours of enjoyment from games like League of Legends, Valorant and Halo Infinite and couldn't even tell you how to spend money on those games if I wanted to. I honestly doubt I would have ever picked up any of those games if they were not free and I'm guessing since many other would say the same thing the lobbies would be empty and the games would die. In those case th…

My experience lines up with yours, as a looong time Halo veteran who is a bit bummed with the state of Infinite, I'm happy to not pay a cent, despite spending thousands on Halo over the years. I've also spent a decent amount of the previous year playing Valorant, and I almost feel bad that I've paid nothing for it, but the the problem is that apparently the economists Riot employs have figured the sweet spot for sell…

Queueing up IS contributing something back - it's a multiplayer game, so every person playing is helping keep queue times low. It also gives Riot a MAU and DAU which they probably track internally to determine how successful a game is (and thus how much to invest in more content for that game).

Re: I hate what video games have become

#450

Post by oneoff786 »

8note wrote: post #76
the_jeremy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To expand, DLC models for multiplayer either split the community (only people who purchased the DLC can join this lobby) or they inevitably make the game pay-to-win. If I'm going to get shot by a $20 sniper rifle, I'd rather it have the same stats as the one I have access to. I will say it sucks when the cosmetic item you want is only available via lootbox, but at least for Counter-Strike Global Offensive (another Va…

The most famous one, fortnite, splits users by being able to express themselves or not. If you pay, you're a member of the community, if not, you're not

I don’t play fortnite and have no interest in it. But this always sounded weird to me. If it’s so extreme to be seen as F2P… can’t you just buy a single cosmetic outfit and call it a day? There’s no way people are keeping track of whether you rotate your wardrobe or care if you happen to like a random skin, right?

It’s like, $1 for an arbitrary skin, no?

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