Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 734 posts

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#441

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

ozzythecat wrote: post #141

I don’t personally use FB and don’t have a very favorable view of their products. I would, however, like to see the same level scrutiny applied to the general American media, especially the news media. FB has come in and started eating their lunch. There’s a deeper problem here, and it feels more like the powers that he want to take down FB. I’m not denying any allegation made against FB, but why is it that Fox News,…

Opinion: Facebook is eating their lunch because humans love being fed belief-affirming drivel for dopamine. It's easy to churn out this content when you have no integrity or regard for the truth.

Tinfoil hat: Bad actors are freaking out because their greatest mis/disinformation tools (Facebook, Twitter, etc) are about to be regulated. The jig is up.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#442

Post by freeopinion »

finfinfin wrote: post #277
vladd wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a poem (or book) makes 10% of its readers more likely to become geniuses and contribute to solving world problems such as cancer, but 0.1% of its readers are more likely to commit suicide, should that book be banned by law? Today's online society is based on posts created by content creators around the world, where algorithms can barely scratch the surface at interpreting their content, humans don't scale in revie…

Looks like you are willfully ignoring Facebook’s own findings. They know that polarizing content is more engaging yet harmful… and they choose to amplify it anyway. The same old argument that it’s hard therefore let’s not do anything is not applicable. Facebook is not a neutral platform that just shows all posts from your friends in a chronological order. They are actively manipulating the stream and are fully respon…

> Facebook [clipped] are fully responsible for what you consume.

I'm not sure how deeply you hold this belief, but I am concerned to see so many people push all blame from their own actions. While it may be true that Facebook is largely responsible for what is consumed * on Facebook *, individuals are largely responsible for consuming Facebook.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#443

Post by bhupy »

n8cpdx wrote: post #327
philwelch wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The elephant in the room here is the First Amendment. The government, legally, cannot do anything to censor "hate speech" or "misinformation" on CNN or Fox News. They also can't do anything to censor "hate speech" or "misinformation" on Facebook, but they can certainly harass Facebook into doing it for them.

Not completely true. Historically mass media was regulated. Lying also isn't legally protected if it causes injury (fire in a crowded theater being the canonical example, libel another). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine

> fire in a crowded theater being the canonical example

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim...

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#444

Post by satellite2 »

chacham15 wrote: post #363
jimkleiber wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really appreciate this point. I often see it as written rules (laws) and unwritten rules (ethics). If something breaks the unwritten rules we have about how people are supposed to interact with each other, then we often codify that rule into law. Many people will say "I didn't break the law" but where many people would say that person did break an unwritten law. > There should be no question, that what FB is doing…

> I often see it as written rules (laws) and unwritten rules (ethics). I think this is a very dangerous line to walk. A common phrase in law is "the law often allows what honor forbids" and that is because there is a difference between the law and ethics and IMO that is a good thing. Is it ethical to eat all the cookies in the cookie jar and leave none for anyone else? No. Should it be illegal? No.

Isn't the cookie jar an alegory of the commons? And as such shouldn't it be forbiden to shit in the cookie jar?

I had the impression that it was how the story ended when we talked about cookies, but maybe I didn't get the memo.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#445

Post by cookie_monsta »

pjc50 wrote: post #392
chacham15 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often see it as written rules (laws) and unwritten rules (ethics). I think this is a very dangerous line to walk. A common phrase in law is "the law often allows what honor forbids" and that is because there is a difference between the law and ethics and IMO that is a good thing. Is it ethical to eat all the cookies in the cookie jar and leave none for anyone else? No. Should it be illegal? No.

Should it be subject to social sanction? Yes. (arguably eating cookies that aren't yours is a crime, and I don't doubt that someone has in the past been arrested for it in ridiculous circumstances)

Australia says hello

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#446

Post by erosenbe0 »

cratermoon wrote: post #415
asdff wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and we have regulations and taxes and laws around these industries, but evidently facebook gets off scott free.

That's because, so far, they've managed to deflect, deny, and discredit research and critics pointing out exactly how social media uses things like variable rewards in the same way as slot machines use them to keep gamblers pulling the lever. They do this using tactics developed by the tobacco companies to fight findings that smoking causes cancer and other harms and refined by the fossil fuel industry to prevent act…

I agree with you but a lot of the analogies and metaphors here are insufficiently subtle.

FB in some sense, but not entirely, is a form of speech, no better or worse than Grand Theft Auto or the National Enquirer. That's how I thought of it ten years ago.

Now that it is in our pockets nearly cradle to grave; a monopoly; and dependent on minutes of engagement rather than subscriptions -- it is a different animal altogether.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#447

Post by rumblerock »

isoskeles wrote: post #366
Noumenon72 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've definitely had much darker thoughts after reading a lot of traditional media than looking at Instagram.

This past year, I think immediately back to believing and repeating the grotesque lie that Brian Sicknick had his brains savagely bashed in with a fire extinguisher by Jan 6 rioters. That never happened, but it was major news for a few days. I actually feel a bit violated for believing and repeating something so false. On the other hand, I haven't had a FB account of any type for over five years, so it hasn't directl…

That feeling of being violated by false / incomplete information and narratives drives me mad. I've spent the last 5 years trying to manage my digital hygiene, not oversaturate myself with news notifications, etc. I look at things with a more critical eye, always hunting for bias. But it's still inescapable, especially with the force with which some of these narratives are pushed.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#448

Post by gadrev »

woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

Good point. The state doesn't decide what's "good" or "bad". We must not forget that.

Laws are useful but are an application of power. Power of who? Of the people? Of some bureaucrats? The answer will not be black and white in most cases, but what's important is not to regard any body that can legislate as a source of moral authority based on that power alone.

And one consequence is not to buy big corp arguments about evil practices "but it's legal!". Yeah, it's legal because it hasn't been outlawed _yet_, because of strong lobbying... b/c of whatever. Never relegate the moral judgement to just "it's legal/illegal".

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#449

Post by bigphishy »

AlexandrB wrote: post #354
an-allen wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chemical Addiction != scrolling facebook

Maybe gambling is a better analog. Last time I checked gambling was pretty tightly regulated.

Excellent analogy.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#450

Post by drbojingle »

freeopinion wrote: post #442
finfinfin wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like you are willfully ignoring Facebook’s own findings. They know that polarizing content is more engaging yet harmful… and they choose to amplify it anyway. The same old argument that it’s hard therefore let’s not do anything is not applicable. Facebook is not a neutral platform that just shows all posts from your friends in a chronological order. They are actively manipulating the stream and are fully respon…

> Facebook [clipped] are fully responsible for what you consume. I'm not sure how deeply you hold this belief, but I am concerned to see so many people push all blame from their own actions. While it may be true that Facebook is largely responsible for what is consumed * on Facebook *, individuals are largely responsible for consuming Facebook.

That's true, but does my mother understand what's really going on? Do you? Do I? Choosing to pick up the phone and call your daughter and choosing to go on Facebook is very different and people growing up with the former might not realize how different the latter really is.
Post reply on HN