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Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

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Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#351

Post by Digory »

akudha wrote: post #220
woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

That is the problem of following the absolute minimum standards in life - we (the society as a whole) have accepted that as long as businesses follow the law, its all good. We've accepted that the sole purpose of businesses is to make money within the bounds of the law. While this makes sense logically, it isn't good for anyone in the long run, practically. Also remember that all kinds of unfair laws can be passed, i…

Scarcity exists.

You cannot follow the maximum standards, because you only have so many resources. We can sort our 'recycling' and go through 'security theater' at the airport but those involve necessary trade-offs to real care for the environment or security.

I don't mind when wealth and education allows us to voluntarily do better or more. But there's danger in punishing people using hindsight.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#352

Post by _hyn3 »

Pyramus wrote: post #270
woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

Enron is another fascinating example, there is an interview with the former CFO where he talks about what he calls "legal fraud" - practices that are highly dubious but technically not illegal [1]. [1] https://youtu.be/goQhGqQtFZ4

There's no such thing as "legal fraud". Fraud is always illegal.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#353

Post by downandout »

hef19898 wrote: post #279
downandout wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone has the same moral compass. It isn’t even clear that the whistleblower herself was guided by concern for society: she first went to the SEC with these complaints. That’s a weird place to go with concerns about social media’s impact on society. I wonder why? Perhaps…just maybe…it was because the SEC will give her 10-30% of any fines levied against Facebook, leading to a potential windfall of $1 billion or…

How about she went to SEC because for certain things that the right place to go to? And the SEC has to fine FB first, which would mean that FB committed illegal acts. That alone is behavior that needs to be encouraged, exposing corporate wrong doing is a net positively for society.

which would mean that FB committed illegal acts

The SEC will make extremely vague allegations that Facebook misled investors by not disclosing some of these reports. Facebook will settle to avoid further reputational damage, paying large fines without admitting wrongdoing. This woman will then buy an island to vacation on and a G650 to get there with. That is how 99% of these things play out.

I personally don’t believe that Facebook has done anything illegal here. That is not to say I don't think they have done anything wrong - their business, like many others, is morally bankrupt in some ways. But there is no codified responsibility for Facebook to do anything to cure the ills of social media. You don’t see casinos being successfully sued for causing suicides, bankruptcies, divorces, financial crimes, etc., but it happens every day. That’s because there is no law against being in a scummy business. Investors in such businesses know (or should know) what they are supporting.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#354

Post by AlexandrB »

an-allen wrote: post #323
015a wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't like Oxycontin, just don't use Oxycontin, Dilaudid, or Fentanyl. Don't know why so many people here think adults are not capable of regulating themselves.

Chemical Addiction != scrolling facebook

Maybe gambling is a better analog. Last time I checked gambling was pretty tightly regulated.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#355

Post by haroldp »

finfinfin wrote: post #336
haroldp wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex slavery is being facilitated by telephone conversations. What is the phone company's obligation to do about that?

Would you agree that it would be wrong for telephone companies to amplify sex slavery conversations? Like they would call you directly and just let you participate in the conversation because that would generate more engagement?

That is a very good counter point. I haven't read this facebook story yet, but I am willing to assume for argument that describes what happened. I guess it would depend for me on whether people saw sex-slavery content and decided to amplify it, vs an algorithm that finds and promotes "engaging" things without being very smart about what they are.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#356

Post by nuerow »

woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

> I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. (...)

The definition of what represents good and evil does not come from what's passed as legislation, nor does the negative influence on society as a whole of a business.

Legislation is also a moot point given that these mega-corporations actively lobby law-makers into not passing any inconvenient legislation.

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#357

Post by keneda7 »

dillondoyle wrote: post #231
farcebook wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One, most of the mainstream news has at least basic editorial processes in place that do a rudimentary check on truthiness. Facebook, along with some of the sketchier news outlets, are the opposite: they profit off (and optimize for) disinformation. Two, it's a matter of scale. Facebook reaches a far larger audience and has far more detail into their preferences and can nano-target personalized stories for them and c…

I agree with holding all media accountable. But the problem with what you say is that for millions and millions 'news' is actually BS opinion shows. On both sides but from my perspective Fox & Murdoch's empire abroad has done far more harm than say Maddow preaching whatever riles that audience up. The actual press, WaPo, NyTimes (which does great docs, so does Vice imho) have rigid editorial process. Yet I still on H…

I've found this site to be pretty fair when rating media bias. It lists all the three sites as having liberal bias.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/

Also I want to point out Vice gave a known murderer a national interview for him to push his fake narrative. Meanwhile there was an actual video and pictures of the killing that completely blew away any notion this was anything other that a murder. Michael Reinoehl hide behind a wall, came out behind two people, and shot one in cold blood. The two people were simply walking. The video and pictures of the killing were available online before Vice decided to give him an interview.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7g8vb/man-linked-to-killing...

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#358

Post by vladd »

finfinfin wrote: post #336
haroldp wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex slavery is being facilitated by telephone conversations. What is the phone company's obligation to do about that?

Would you agree that it would be wrong for telephone companies to amplify sex slavery conversations? Like they would call you directly and just let you participate in the conversation because that would generate more engagement?

When phone companies came into existence, that's exactly what they did -- they amplified such conversations by making it easier for people to have phone calls and talk at a distance of each other.

They also got amplified whenever long distance calls got cheaper (as the overall volume of conversations increased).

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#359

Post by dado3212 »

farcebook wrote: post #191
ozzythecat wrote: post #141

I don’t personally use FB and don’t have a very favorable view of their products. I would, however, like to see the same level scrutiny applied to the general American media, especially the news media. FB has come in and started eating their lunch. There’s a deeper problem here, and it feels more like the powers that he want to take down FB. I’m not denying any allegation made against FB, but why is it that Fox News,…

One, most of the mainstream news has at least basic editorial processes in place that do a rudimentary check on truthiness. Facebook, along with some of the sketchier news outlets, are the opposite: they profit off (and optimize for) disinformation. Two, it's a matter of scale. Facebook reaches a far larger audience and has far more detail into their preferences and can nano-target personalized stories for them and c…

The vast majority of what you could call disinformation is directly downstream of mainstream media sources. FB is a platform: the content has to come from somewhere, and it’s usually downstream of these news companies. Should FB be banning Fox and MSNBC? What’s the expectation here?

Re: Facebook Whistleblower Leaks Thousands of Pages of Incriminating Internal Docs

#360

Post by _hyn3 »

dantheman wrote: post #294
woeirua wrote: post #77

I think a lot of people are choosing to ignore that a lot of companies have done things in the past that were not illegal at the time of action. However, those actions were later decided to be made illegal because the behavior was deemed to be antithetical to our values. For example, Standard Oil did not break any laws in its ruthless consolidation of the nascent oil industry. In fact, it exploited the law to allow i…

Standard oil reduces the cost of oil, delighted customers, and had already a massive decline in market share by the time the antitrust stuff happened. It was driven by people who couldn't compete.

As someone who has studied this fairly extensively, I believe this comment to be factually correct.

It also didn't hurt Rockefeller in the slightest. To the contrary, he actually became far wealthier post-breakup, possibly because all former business units became more efficient in the light of open competition.

Many of them live on today, such as Texaco, Chevron, and Mobil.

https://historyincharts.com/the-legacy-of-the-breakup-of-sta...

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Standard-Oil

In general, trustbusting almost never actually works as planned, but it always seems like a good idea -- a desperate solution, perhaps the only possible solution -- at the time.

The only thing that tends to work is upstart competition driven by new technology that blindsides the older company.

When it comes to a monopolist, the one thing that we can say historically is that, "This too shall pass."

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