Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#441

Post by sbierwagen » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

Throwawayaerlei wrote: post #107

laverya wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Most people don’t even understand how a gun mechanically functions. It lives in the realm of magic for most people, despite being mechanically very simple. This base ignorance of the function of a firearm is one of the biggest reasons why firearm-related accidents happen. You might not want a gun, and fine—that’s your stance—but you should know how it works and how to use it. > Unless you need to clean it and for…

I know a lot of people like to look down on their fellow Americans to the extent they even consider them to be so, but the hardest statistics we have on your concern is fatal gun accidents per year, and they've gone down from 800 to 500, actually 486 for 2019 from the CDC's most recent statistics, as the population has increased by 50%, the number of gun owners has massively increased and the number of guns owned by…

Another question is how many fatal gun accidents were intentional suicides that the medical examiner, for whatever reason, didn't want to enter as such.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#442

Post by ahtihn » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

mmmpop wrote: post #368

redstripe wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's admirable about it? This is just a fiction that you Americans tell yourselves about the next revolution. Name one, just one way, that ease of gun ownership has protected Americans from their government in a way that citizens of other western democracies have suffered? There is no scenario in which any citizen with a gun in any country defeats their government. Your gun will keep you safe about as well as your…

If you were an officer of the law pressed to go door-to-door to say, purely hypothetically, take the oldest child by force to inscribe them in some dystopian military program, you'd probably be a lot more hesitant if you knew that there was a chance you'd get shot in the process right? I believe that's the security that us Americans (I imagine your sneer with that) feel by being armed. Isn't it that the Swiss are all…

Swiss gun culture has nothing to do with American gun culture. Guns are for hunting and sport that's it.

Essentially no one even thinks of getting a gun for self defence. There also has never been an idea that guns are for defending yourself against your own government here.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#443

Post by zepto » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

jfengel wrote: post #401

zepto wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the ability of guns to appear at any instant keeps the entire country on edge, all the time. This is a fantasy. I’ve never been in a situation I’m the US where I thought a gun could appear at any time, and I don’t even live in a particularly great neighborhood.

Congratulations on never having encountered a police officer. If you do, you'll be very aware of the fact that they're treating you as if you were armed. I am aware of it, and I'm not even black -- and I've seen how much worse it is for black people. Congrats, also, on graduating school before school shootings became a big thing. Me, too. It was great not having to go through metal detectors on my way to class. I am…

I’m not white and I’ve been stopped by police numerous times and have never been afraid of being shot. The chances of being involved in a school shooting are lower than the chance of being hit by lightning.

I also have flown many times. Nobody has ever ‘checked me for guns’. Generally they are checking for knives and explosives. You might be too young to remember, but much of today’s airport security was brought in as a response to 9/11.

If you really think a gun might appear at any moment, I recommend you do some research on how unlikely that actually is. It’s a totally unrealistic fear, and one that can only result from being misinformed.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#444

Post by Throwawayaerlei » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

cratermoon wrote: post #275

Giving women guns wouldn't prevent rape: it would land women in jail https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/23/dana-l... Guns Are Bad for Women: https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/politics/a18666337/nra...

There's no substance to the Harper's Bazzar article, and The Guardian one cites two cases, one I'm not familiar with, but the other was a clear case of attempted murder that got so notorious the woman was given a pass in the end.

Key detail in that case: when you withdraw from a heated situation, retrieve a gun from your vehicle, and go back to it and shoot at the person you're arguing with, you're not exactly demonstrating legitimate self-defense.

Needless to say they don't list any cases where things went right for a woman defending herself. Do you believe there are absolutely none of those? Do you follow any news sources that would even cover them??

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#445

Post by InitialLastName » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #336

sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

I think it quite likely Angola's reporting is broken. Coming up with accurate numbers even for a developed country is challenging. >Furthermore, i find US fascination with their theoretical ability to fight their government with small arms adorable and misguided. Afghanistan, a fractious nation mostly comprised of illiterate peasants, has been able to fight off not one but two superpowers using mostly small arms.

The Afghanistan thing is an easy narrative, but it isn't really an accurate one. More accurate:

> Two superpowers found that Afghanistan, a fractious nation mostly comprised of illiterate peasants and devoid of exploitable industrial or natural resources, wasn't worth the price of occupying indefinitely.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#446

Post by malwrar » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #274

bm3719 wrote: post #106

Excellent. There's no reason defensive gun buyers should be demographically different from the general population. It's understandable that gun sales for hunting or other activities might show differences, but we all have the same personal security needs. Side note: I'm one of the people here with a large collection of firearms. One thing to realize when you see the statistic that the US has more firearms than people…

For decades I have lived deep in the heart of some of the densest cities in the country (SF and NYC). These are places with serious and obvious crime problems that I have seen up close and personal, day in and day out. Yet to me, despite these experiences, the entire concept of "personal security needs" involving firearms is absolutely absurd. It sounds like a Monty Python sketch. Silly to the point of absurdity. But…

Using city life as baseline to measure personal safety needs ignores the fact that living in a city safely usually is a matter of luck & avoiding places like the tenderloin in SF, the west & south sides in Chicago, etc. There’s also cops that are minutes away, and worst case violent people typically want your valuables more than your life.

I grew up in Chicago, but I also spent my summers living on my grandparents’ farm in a deep rural area. It’s just a different experience out there when you’re alone in the middle of nowhere surrounded by occasionally hostile wildlife and occasionally some pretty weird people. There’s much less room for avoidance or flight from danger, which makes guns feel useful to carry. I still feel naked hiking unarmed in California.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#447

Post by simonh » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

I do not at all accept that guns empower the weak. We can see all over the world they are a massive force multiplier for criminals, the violent and the murderous. Guns are only potent in the hands of those willing and able to use violence. For those unwilling to do so, they are massively disenfranchising. They essentially tilt the balance of power in society decisively in favour of those most willing to kill, and most enthusiastic about preparing to do so.

There is nothing admirable about normalising and promoting lethal violence in society. I’m very much aware of the sentiment that guns can have beneficial social effects, epitomised by the Heinlein quote that an armed society is a polite society. This is absurd. That sentiment is a direct attack on the principle of free speech, open discourse and equal right of expression for citizens. We should aspire to toleration of free expression, even if it’s uncomfortable or offensive, not suppression of it. Is it really right to hand an implicit veto on opinion to the violent? Utterly shameful.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#448

Post by slg » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #413

slg wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence do you have for suggesting that a citizenry with guns serves to protect other freedoms? The US generally isn't among the top countries on the various international freedom indexes[1] despite our prevalence of guns. We are usually behind Canada, New Zealand, the Scandinavian countries, and a few other European countries depending on the specific criteria being evaluated. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…

I have a very simple litmus test. In how many countries can you openly (with lots of publicity) organize "Draw a Muhammad" or "Burn the bible" events.

That is a poor test in my opinion. I do not value symbolic personal liberties like bible burning or drawing Muhammad more than economic or press freedom which have a much larger cascading effect on our lives. And the fact that the US is lacking in those two latter categories compared to many of our peer nations calls into question whether our freedom regarding guns or speech actually protects our other freedoms.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#449

Post by throwaway0a5e » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

clipradiowallet wrote: post #393

sofixa wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So did our Deep State as they lost a twenty year fight against the Taliban. Who immediately started seizing the people's guns upon capturing Kabul I sincerely doubt the average first world person has what it takes to sacrifice their comfortable life and go live in caves to resist a tyrannical occupation. And there's no need for them to do that, realistically.

> I sincerely doubt the average first world person has what it takes to sacrifice their comfortable life and go live in caves to resist a tyrannical occupation. I think the people seizing those weapons should be less concerned about "average" gun owners, and more worried about fringe citizens willing to die to detonate a high yield explosive in the centers of power.

The crazies are always the first off the porch. They're a canary.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#450

Post by sbierwagen » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

Throwawayaerlei wrote: post #95

sharklazer wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Most people don’t even understand how a gun mechanically functions. It lives in the realm of magic for most people, despite being mechanically very simple. This base ignorance of the function of a firearm is one of the biggest reasons why firearm-related accidents happen. You might not want a gun, and fine—that’s your stance—but you should know how it works and how to use it. 2. We don’t nuke each other all the ti…

1. Most people don’t even understand how a gun mechanically functions. It lives in the realm of magic for most people, despite being mechanically very simple. This base ignorance of the function of a firearm is one of the biggest reasons why firearm-related accidents happen. You might not want a gun, and fine—that’s your stance—but you should know how it works and how to use it. Unless you need to clean it and for th…

I mean, an evergreen category of unintentional discharges is people pulling the magazine, and then accidentally firing the chambered round because they thought the gun was empty.

Notoriously, Glock pistols don't have a magazine disconnect, and their field strip procedure is to drop the magazine, rack the slide, pull the trigger, then pushing the slide lock to remove it. Skipping one of those steps has put a lot of holes in walls over the last few decades.

It's a gun. It's supposed to be dangerous! Owning a gun without knowing how it works is bad.