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Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

theregister.com

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Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#441

Post by jen20 »

zapita wrote: post #342
sokoloff wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the driver here is not in the moment short-sightedness, but rather a byproduct of the procurement or other finance processes (ironically often instituted with intent to prevent waste and fraud or make the company more efficient). It’s not just the $250/yr/dev, but rather the requirements to create a new vendor in the ERP morass, to get approvals for an exception to the standards for payment terms (and/or met…

A lot of those enterprises already have Docker on the vendor list though, because of Docker Hub.

I suspect that most people running at the kind of scale where purchasing is hugely problematic are also running Artifactory or similar, not using Docker Hub.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#442

Post by __s »

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

I work at a large company. I added a USE_PODMAN environment variable for devs to use within an hour of finding out about this

But maybe my company is too large; large enough companies can have smaller teams, other teams will probably go the licensing route

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#443

Post by dragonwriter »

qeternity wrote: post #439
dragonwriter wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The business license costs $21/month No, it costs $21/user/month. > Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? I work for a big enterprise that is currently going through a transition that is simultaneously a cloud transition and a transition to more critically consider tooling with license management overhea…

> No, it costs $21/user/month. Do you guys not realize that I know that? I did the maths standardized to one seat. I’m not also suggesting that the entire engineering spend for 100+ person companies is $250k/year. Do the analysis on a per unit cost because that’s how life works: per unit cost of human capital and per unit cost of software vs. per unit value creation.

> Do you guys not realize that I know that?

Did you not read the rest of the post? I think you knew the license fee was per seat, I think you just think you failed (and fail, still) to understand the significance of that on the actual cost to the business imposed, of which the license fee itself is only a fraction.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#444

Post by SilverRed »

gigatexal wrote: post #36
dpratt wrote: post #33

This appears to be cutting of their nose to spite their face. We have a team of 50+ engineers that all use Docker for Mac for daily development tasks, but I suspect that will no longer be true in a rather short amount of time. Frankly, I don’t really know if anybody actually uses the UI components for it outside of starting and stopping the engine and for basic configuration of the VM. Everything else that comes with…

I tried getting podman working pointing at a Linux server and ram into issues as an alternative to Docker. I’m hoping the kinks get worked out and I can move over.

We have been using podman here for all of our developers and have yet to find anything different to docker. Perhaps you are using a more obscure feature.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#445

Post by seoaeu »

coding123 wrote: post #124
qeternity wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the users who will be paying for it. Enterprises will bend over and take this 100% Good move by Docker, financially speaking. They have little to lose.

It's a short sited move that will kill D.Desktop. It's not that these large corps don't have the money for this, it's how money is allocated in companies. Instead, now all hobby projects in large corp get killed fast and early because the hobbyist knows their project is doomed if the company isn't going to go for a new bill. A whole bunch of scenarios die now.

...if a company is incapable of allocating money to pay Docker, then why should Docker care whether that company uses the product or not?

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#447

Post by SilverRed »

remram wrote: post #171
cybrexalpha wrote: post #85

This seems like a bit of a footgun from Docker Inc. Those on Linux will just run Docker Engine (the open source part) directly, or move to alternatives like Podman. Docker Desktop only really has value on macOS and Windows, and there it's only because nobody wants to manage the glue to setup a Linux VM. Given the cost, I suspect many will chose to do that glue work themselves and I wouldn't be surprised to see an ope…

There is a Docker Desktop for Linux? What does it do? Why would I go out of my way to set up Docker differently on my dev machine compared to my servers? That seems like a recipe for failure.

On MacOS and windows, using docker is a pain because you have to run a linux VM and set up networking and everything.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#448

Post by jonjonsonjr »

_joel wrote: post #409
rileymichael wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tags are mutable, digests aren't.

Why, how often do you change tags after you've built a container and for what reason if so?

Digests cryptographically guarantee that you get the correct content, which prevents both malicious tampering (mitm, stolen credentials, etc) or accidental mutations. This is why "immutable tags" are a bad substitute and an oxymoron.

There are also better caching properties when using content addressable identifiers. For example with kubernetes pull policies, using IfNotPresent and deploying by digest means you don't even have to check with the registry to initialize a pod if the image is already cached, which can improve startup latency.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#449

Post by culpable_pickle »

0x500x79 wrote: post #93

Unless I am missing something this is pretty huge. Every company I have worked at that has issued MacBooks has had development environment instructions which outline using docker desktop (since it is the simplest solution). Given this headline every one of those companies would have needed to get licensing for that. As others have stated: I am okay with attempting to monetize your work, but increasing prices like thi…

Of course it does. Else you could downgrade to a pervious release with different licensing and not have to pay...

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#450

Post by ryan_lane »

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

Local dev environments are used because it's what people are used to, and they're low friction to start using. The problem is that they're actually quite difficult to maintain at scale. Large businesses spend a considerable amount of time debugging local developer environments. Cloud IDEs have been popping up and are finally to the point of being usable (and in some cases even better than a local dev env).

My company was already somewhat interested in checking out hosted IDEs, and today this pushed us to start some proof of concepts to move some teams over to github's codespaces.

So, yes, businesses will adjust their workflows to avoid the cost since many were already interested in improving their workflows and relieving some of the burden on their developer environment tooling teams.

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