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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

fda.gov

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#441

Post by yojo »

mlang23 wrote: post #382
bananabiscuit wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the intent of people asking me why I don’t want to vaccinate is almost never to really understand my perspective and my reasons for not doing so. Instead the goal is usually to find the first statement I make that they feel they can easily attack (ignoring all other reasons I state), and then attack that statement and conclude that I am a conspiracy theorist antivaxxer.

I experience similar things. Frankly, I think the media has put so many weird labels on people who choose not to vaccinate that after the lockdowns, the vaxed people found a sort of sensation in talking to non-vaxed people. It felt like in a zoo. "So, you are not vaxed because you are afraid of the pain?" The actual reason for most, which is "I have decided to risk an infection to let my immune system do its job" is…

The part of this argument that feels shaky to me is it ignores externalities. If it were possible to risk an infection with no impact on others then yes, the conversation is over.

But diseases don’t work like this. If you get sick, you will get others sick. If you get very sick, you will occupy a hospitable bed. Given current hospital utilization rates, this could well end in a sick person being turned away.

Given the societal costs, it seems fair to me to ask for a stronger justification than “I don’t think the virus will hurt me”

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#442

Post by lp0_on_fire »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #399
mlang23 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find most sad about your post is that you had to open by stating your vaccination status. So we effectively reached a point where you are only allowed to be critical of vaccination after you got yourself a shot. This is so weird and frightening, I dont know what to say. Things said and claimed by all sides in the past 1 1/2 years have made me really stop believe in humanity. It feels like a bad dream or a stra…

>What I find most sad about your post is that you had to open by stating your vaccination status. The political status of this website requires me to disclaimer. I expect even with the disclaimer I will be attacked regardless. If not downvoted to the point that my words are hidden. Which isn't much of a prediction because this post is already downvoted. >This is so weird and frightening, I dont know what to say. Thin…

reddit consists mostly of edgy teenagers that have absolutely no experience with real life. The NH community would do well to start putting it out of its' mind.

TBH I'm pretty disappointed to see the commentary on HN cite reddit and wikipedia as often as they do.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#443

Post by postalrat »

Qub3d wrote: post #426
b0tzzzzzzman wrote: post #418

Hacker news is turning into Reddit style comments section. Can we talk about natural immunity and the path forward?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.

Not as old as reddit.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#444

Post by [deleted] »

zacharytelschow wrote: post #383
pornel wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the deal: you don't have to take the vaccine, but promise to stay away from people, and not burden hospitals when you get covid. It's not your personal choice when it can harm other people (e.g. immunocompromised people who can't get the vaccine themselves, other people who need ICU beds).

Let's apply that logic to everything, then, and see how it works out. You're fat or obese and have health outcomes stemming from those choices? Enjoy your heart attack, fatty. You get injured doing something "non-essential?" Your mountain bike accident sounds like your problem. You're a smoker and get lung cancer? Sorry, no treatment is available for you. You don't get to dictate the health choices of others. And if…

[deleted]

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#445

Post by moate »

ipaddr wrote: post #371
rotexo wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That question might best be prefaced with “here’s what would change my mind… what about yours?” That formulation might come across as more curious and open rather than patronizing. Though I honestly don’t at all understand the mindset of people who don’t want the vaccine, so I have to admit this approach could quite easily still be offensive.

People are mostly worried about long term side effects. Including those who have the vaccine. Understanding that base fear will help bridge the divide between groups.

Not really? I don't see how you bridge a group worried about a short term existential threat (the virus) and another alleging worry about a long term existential threat (the vaccine) when the two things are 0 sum.

By the time group 2 catches up (because years have gone by of the vaccine not causing widespread problems) the threat is gone. Meanwhile the animosity has not truly been diminished because the first group will feel the second is responsible for insert issue pertaining to millions of people willingly not getting vaccinated that caused them pain/suffering.

It's almost like many people are "worried" about "long term effects" as just a smoke-screen to run out the clock on the issue...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#446

Post by pokstad »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #306
thepasswordis wrote: post #200

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to. They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework. I don’t think we should be able to require them to. To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities wo…

we don't require anyone to take the vaccine, and we will never require anyone to take the vaccine. What we should and will do is restrict what someone who is not vaccinated can do to limit the harm they will cause to others. No one is going to bang down your door and force a vaccine into your arm, but if you do not want to get vaccinated you will need to change your life because you will be restricted from participat…

Power to tax is the power to destroy.

The power to exclude is the power to coerce.

Society is coercing people into taking the vaccine by requiring it for any activities outside the home. Want to go to the grocery store? Get a vaccine or wear a mask. Want to go to Disneyland? Get a vaccine or wear a mask. Want to attend a conference? Get a vaccine or take a test and wear a mask. The mask and testing mandates are an effort to wear down anti-vaccine people instead of letting them be.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#447

Post by briffle »

enumjorge wrote: post #329
defaultprimate wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a great chasm between direct action resulting in tragedy and inaction for the preservation of autonomy having an infinitesimally small probability of directly resulting in tragedy. Comparing choosing to drive drunk with not choosing to take a particular action that has an infinitesimally small probability of directly causing tragedy are not remotely comparable.

We’re talking about health guidelines at the state and national level here. What matters is the big picture not a single data point. No one cares if Joe has the vaccine, we care that X% percentage of the total population has been infected or that Y% percentage of people are vaccinated. We’re in a tech forum do I really need to explain this? The probability of an individual hard drive failing is small. If you’re build…

My state is essentially out of ICU beds. There are a handful left in Portland. That directly affects anyone that might get in a car accident, severe infection, etc. Most hospitals in this state stopped elective surgery. That effects anyone that has an 'elective' surgury like removing a tumor, delay means they will get much, much worse and have an increased chance of dying.

While I'm all for 'personal choice', I feel like COVID cases should be de-prioritized for ICU access.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#448

Post by hypocritepledge »

Saint_Genet wrote: post #416
miked85 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. Or maybe just stick with the fact that it isn't very effective. [1] [1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v...

1. That article isn't peer reviewd. 2. You linked to an old version that says "However, in July, the effectiveness against infection was considerably lower", in the current version the same sentence reads "In July, vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization has remained high"

You say it "isn't peer reviewed". I say it's a "preprint paper".

That's generally how the media describes the papers that respectively go against, or with the narrative they're trying to push.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#449

Post by acdha »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #356
acdha wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it’s not that simple because your choices significantly impact other people: I can’t choose whether or not to receive the viruses you spread, so I have an interest in you spreading far fewer of them. My 4 year old child can’t be vaccinated so he, along with many immune-compromised people or those with certain medical conditions, is dependent on other people getting vaccinated to sharply reduce spr…

Your mindset is deeply concerning and rather evil in its supremacist belief you are justified in imposing things on others against their will. You may believe you are justified in that imposition, as all authoritarian types are, but one thing is for sure, the precedent to overturn the most fundamental concepts of freedom you demand be imposed on all, WILL be used against the useful idiots in short order, as is always…

Is it “supremacist” to say you have wear pants in public or safely prepare the food you serve customers? Is it “authoritarian” to deprive you of the freedom to defecate in a public street, smoke in a restaurant, drive a car which doesn’t meet safety standards, or spray toxic chemicals on your property?

The answer, of course, is no because living in a society requires moderating your behavior when it affects other people. Those real examples also notably did not turn into the slippery slopes you’re trying to scare people with because public support isn’t unconditional – as we’ve seen, there are very real limits to what they can require and it involves significant public debate. Where real authoritarians do cause problems, it’s a misattribution error to say those problems are because they have health codes rather than correctly recognizing that an authoritarian government will manifest in all kinds of areas.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#450

Post by a_imho »

vvilliamperez wrote: post #239

Like someone else mentioned, I think the core issue is "Should the government have the right to mandate medical procedures?" In my mind, I'm vaccinated, so what does it matter to me if others are not?

Kevin Sorbo's take

https://twitter.com/ksorbs/status/1417538663018344448

Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from the virus that they were vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.

I'm really interested a rebuttal to this.

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