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Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

ejroundtheworld.blogspot.com

441–450 of 510 posts

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#441
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this response from Paul Graham we have an example of how this crisis could taint ALL Y Combinator companies. I say this as a fan of Mr Graham, Hacker News (which he created), and his essays. But this is 100 percent the wrong reaction by Paul to the sickening -- sickening! -- disclosure that Airbnb tried to get this guest to hush up the utter sacking of her apartment in order to close a funding round . Paul, you sh…

> you should be condemning Airbnb's pathetically slow response (which you do not dispute) Yes, he does dispute it. Read his post.

He really doesn't, though I can see how you might get that impression. In the post you suggest I re-read, Paul is referring to financial assistance, which will reasonably take a period of days to offer. When Paul says "Airbnb has been offering to fix it, from the very beginning," that may well be true.

But that statement does not dispute or otherwise speak to the fact that it was hard and time consuming for the customer to get in contact with Airbnb in the first place, just to get basic information and to let them know what happened. EJ said in her original post that it took 14 hours to get a call back from the "urgent" phone line -- and even then only after she contacted a friend who freelances for them.

(Edited for clarity)

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#442
Just like everyone else, I hope the AirBNB guys will do the right thing.

I don't know if many of you have seen her Jan 2nd post titled 'New Year. New Home.'

"As 2011 sets in, I find myself curled up on a new couch in a new apartment in a not-so-new city, reading today’s (and yesterday’s) New York Times, and listening to the rain fall against the skylight overhead. A Duraflame log burns in the fireplace, a bar of dark chocolate sits half-eaten on the counter, and a lull of soft music whispers from the stereo. I am cozy, comfortable and perfectly content. I am home."

".... unpacking dusty boxes, unloading suitcases and scouring the internet for furniture. Something along the lines of a home began to take shape, and with it came that invaluable feeling of being at peace."

"....For the time being anyway, it's my home. And - surprisingly or not - a pretty great home it's turning out to be."

It is a tragedy.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#443
post #107

It seems like easy money, but being a landlord is a crummy business to be in. I haven't had an experience quite this bad, but we screen our tenants, don't keep our own valuables where they can get them, and take a large deposit up front. We have still had places trashed and had to pay repairs of well over $10k to return them to rentable condition when someone moves out... Luckily we have much of the tenants informati…

I would propose that being a landlord, and hosting on AirBNB have the potential to be quite different things. My father is a landlord, he shares similar stories of disaster. He also rents out in a low-income, remote area. My AirBNB offering is near Boston, where 85% of my visitors are traveling here as tourists from far away. I keep my nightly price reasonable, but on the higher end. I ask plenty of questions about t…

What would you do if you had had the same sort of experience that EJ had? I think you might change your mind.

Let's look at your numbers... I'll guess that you charge $150/night (minus the $20 AirBNB fee = $130/night you had 100 nights in 18 months, for an average of ~$722/month.

That's a tidy sum. Is it worth the work, risk and headache? Would the value of the extra property you are keeping and renting provide a better return if you moved to a smaller place and put the value difference in another investment?

These are questions you have to ask yourself, and everyone will have different opinions. My opinion is that being a landlord means having illiquid assets that provide a low return with high risk and a lot of work.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this response from Paul Graham we have an example of how this crisis could taint ALL Y Combinator companies. I say this as a fan of Mr Graham, Hacker News (which he created), and his essays. But this is 100 percent the wrong reaction by Paul to the sickening -- sickening! -- disclosure that Airbnb tried to get this guest to hush up the utter sacking of her apartment in order to close a funding round . Paul, you sh…

Just so you know, the phrase "shocked -- shocked! --" (which you seem to be referencing here with your invocation of "sickening -- sickening! --") is a reference to the movie Casablanca, where it is uttered cynically by a corrupt police chief who is not shocked at all as he's been participating in the illegal activity himself from the very beginning. So, if you are genuinely sickened, it's inappropriate.

I was not referencing that movie line; the movie line is itself a reference to a common style of emphasis that predates the movie by... well, by quite some time.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#445
post #319
post #141

Airbnb & YC, just fix this please: 1. Get a new place for EJ. Furnish it fully. Pay for everything. 2. Help her restore her virtual identity. Use any resources at your considerable disposal. 3. Help her find her irreplaceable stuff. A few private detectives and a small team of scouters can make more progress in 2 weeks that the SFPD can make in a lifetime. Publish pictures of her grandmother's jewelry to enlist a gia…

I've just learned more about this situation, and it turns out Airbnb has been offering to fix it, from the very beginning. From the beginning they offered to pay to get her a new place and new stuff, and do whatever else she wanted. The story Arrington wrote yesterday about Airbnb not offering to help was bullshit. He asked a company spokesman what Airbnb was doing to help her. The spokesman, who'd been told by their…

The thing is, Paul; I am fully willing to believe that TC are grabbing the sensational as best they can - and twisting the story. I more than believe the spokesman spoke in careful legal terms and inadvertently caused the fuckfest. I can totally get that we are getting tiny snippets of the story - even from EJ herself.

however

EJ has posted a blog in which she clearly feels upset, distraught, confused and worried.

Whether legitimately or not she doesn't feel happy.

This is the point where a big corporation goes into PR drive. But a startup and indie company such as Airbnb should, and could, be doing this:

* Fuck laywers, who cares about legal when a person is upset and distraught

* The Company is in SF - go and meet her tomorrow, forget the internet and the blog, make the person feel safe and cared for

* Pursue the culprits like the plague, hire a PI and pressure the police. Call in your big-guns contacts in SF and the Valley. Get millionaires calling the PD until they have a task force on the issue. After all; it is the reputation of the company at stake

* Take this girl on an apartment hunting spree, buy her something nice and replace the kit she lost.

And then tell the internet about it!

Ultimately there are two factors to consider here. Firstly her welfare, of course. After that it is OK to think of the company. If you can combine these two factors then no one is going to moan at them. Yes, the ideas I set out there are "above and beyond" - but we live in this shitty culture where everyone seems to have to consult lawyers when the shit hits the fan. Speaking for myself, if I heard about this issue (even if I heard about it after the first blog post went viral) my first response would not be to call the lawyers and see what I could say, it would be to call the damn girl, find out she was in the same city and turn up on the damn doorstep with a lawyer and a phonebook of people to ring and fix the issue. Perhaps this is just me.

This company just got over $100m of funding; there appears to be cash to spare to make this right.

Going back to pont #1; for whatever the reason Airbnb have a customer who is feeling terrible, upset and distraught. And no amount of "we are working to help this women" comments are going to help that. Fix the girl's situation, the rest will follow naturally. Companies can be Samaritans as well.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#446
post #319
post #141

Airbnb & YC, just fix this please: 1. Get a new place for EJ. Furnish it fully. Pay for everything. 2. Help her restore her virtual identity. Use any resources at your considerable disposal. 3. Help her find her irreplaceable stuff. A few private detectives and a small team of scouters can make more progress in 2 weeks that the SFPD can make in a lifetime. Publish pictures of her grandmother's jewelry to enlist a gia…

I've just learned more about this situation, and it turns out Airbnb has been offering to fix it, from the very beginning. From the beginning they offered to pay to get her a new place and new stuff, and do whatever else she wanted. The story Arrington wrote yesterday about Airbnb not offering to help was bullshit. He asked a company spokesman what Airbnb was doing to help her. The spokesman, who'd been told by their…

From a strategy perspective - it's better to solve the problem first and only then attack someone who is, supposedly, making too much out of a problem.

From, a 'being a good person' perspective - there are lots of problems here. Isn't there someone at this company that can throw away legal concerns and just go talk to her and ask her what in her mind would fix the problem. It seems the company still can't get out of 'its own needs and wants' and understand that there's a human being affected by this who had her home trashed.

Perhaps the thing the lady wants most is just someone who CARES!

Not about the company's reputation or legal concerns but CARES about her as a person.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#447
post #44

"...keep the money and use it to book yourself into a nice, safe hotel room the next time you travel. You’ll be glad you did." Statements like this certainly fuel the hotel industry conspiracy theories from yesterday for me. It doesn't even make sense, as she claims the hotels will be safer for the travellers. The travellers safety was never at question here was it?

I've seen plenty of people endorse the competition after being screwed by a company, so I don't think that's suspicious at all.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#448
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how a random blogger is more plausible than pg and Airbnb? Yeah, that's status thinking and antithetical to rational discourse. You evaluate a story or its plausibility on _its_ merits, not on the status of who tells it (unless you have _real_ information about the author's credibility, which in this case neither of us, correct me if I'm wrong, have.) > this seems to corroborate pg's statement, they off…

> Yeah, that's status thinking and antithetical to rational discourse. You evaluate a story or its plausibility on _its_ merits, not on the status of who tells it (unless you have _real_ information about the author's credibility, which in this case neither of us, correct me if I'm wrong, have.) What about in the other direction? I have no information about the author's credibility whatsoever, but from personal inter…

That's still argument from authority, like saying "Colin Powell is known to be a highly educated man and honored soldier, how could he be possibly fooled by faked documents?"

there is the possibility that the anonymous blogger has just as much integrity and honesty as pg. We don't know whether or not she does. We do know what both parties have said in public. therefore, we need to limit our evaluations to that until further information is known.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#449
I feel badly for the person whose placed got trashed, and it seems Airbnb is doing what they can to remedy the situation - but am I the only one who feels there's a certain risk to be assumed with online transactions such as this?

If a girl meets a man on match.com who claims to be single, but after getting into a relationship with him she finds out he's married - is match.com to blame for this? Could they have done more to verify his background - perhaps, but that's also the risk we take.

It's an unfortunate incident, but trust me other than hacker news, techmeme and techcrunch (that's where the FT got it from) this is not really headline news, and it's not going to affect airbnb's performance in the long run.

On a separate note, I hope pg realizes with 423 comments on here it's hard to make heads or tails of what to read - hopefully the comments rating system will be brought back.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree more. Deal with the "if I give you a cookie, everyone else will want one too" problem if and when you actually have it. This isn't about business. It's about helping someone who needs help.

This is about business. Airbnb can't be sustained for free. It will cease to exist if it can't make money.

The girl who's house got ruined doesn't care if AirBnB falls apart, and the founders have to work for a red-tape, boring organization for the rest of the lives.
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