Why is the university of California dropping the SAT? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#441

Post by jbluepolarbear » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #417

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have illegible hand writing. I was able to type all other standard tests I had taken up to that point. How was I supposed to know that they changed the test? When I signed up there was no mention of the essay and a lot of kids were surprised by the essay at the time of the test. I’m sure I would have rocked the essay had I been able to type it. I planned to major in English because i enjoyed writing. I haven’t writ…

Its so weird to hear that. My entire college-bound peer group took the SAT twice, once without the essay and once with the essay. Literally all of us, every single friend/acquaintance in my year. Most of us took the PSAT (practice SAT) to get used to the "timing" of multiple choice. (When you're low on time, its time to start guessing and moving way quicker) The exceptions were the military dudes, who left for the Ir…

I took the presat and got one of the highest scores in my city. I wasn’t in any college group, I barely had the attention span to go to school. I was told by my counselor that I should take the sat to get into college, so I did. I was a senior at the time of taking it (2005) and there was a lot of controversy around the test that year. My family was so poor that I didn’t even know if college was going to be an option for me. because of this test I was unable to get any scholarships for English programs, but, since my math score was in the 95th percentile, I was able to get a small amount of engineering scholarships. I still ended up accruing a lot of student loan debt and ultimately dropped out because I never wanted to do engineering.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#442

Post by crackercrews » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

kart23 wrote: post #295

The article makes no mention of the lawsuit that was brought against the UC system. They ended up settling, with the UC system agreeing to stop using the SAT for the next 5 years. I think the lawsuit had a lot more influence on the decision than most people think. https://www.sfchronicle.com/education/article/Judge-bars-Uni... https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/UC-settles-student...

The lawsuit appears to be limited to pandemic conditions. The judge said it's not fair to some students who don't have good enough access during the pandemic. He doesn't say anything about using the SAT after the pandemic. So this policy is much broader than what was required.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#443

Post by temp8964 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #367

klipt wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're Asian, in which case declaring your race will lower your admission chances even relative to white people.

We actually had a few Pacific Islanders express anxiety with selecting "Asian American/Pacific Islander" because they were worried that identifying as such would subject them to more competition. They were advised to do it anyways.

I read somewhere says "Asian American/Pacific Islander" is a totally made up term by the federal government and basically has no root in reality.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#444

Post by imwillofficial » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #367

klipt wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're Asian, in which case declaring your race will lower your admission chances even relative to white people.

We actually had a few Pacific Islanders express anxiety with selecting "Asian American/Pacific Islander" because they were worried that identifying as such would subject them to more competition. They were advised to do it anyways.

When the policies enacted to attempt to be less racist, have people scared to be honest about their race, I think you’ve blown it.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#445

Post by wpasc » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

limeblack wrote: post #435

starchild_3001 wrote: post #333

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything…

Forgive me but what is wrong with the AP classes/exams. And yes you can take them with out taking the class(I did.)

This is not my opinion, but critiques against AP classes point to the correlation between the resources a high school has and the amount of AP classes and resultant tests available. More focus on AP classes would likely exacerbate economic inequality in admissions (so the [not my] argument says).

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#446

Post by dnautics » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 11:18 PM UTC

usaar333 wrote: post #433

dnautics wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe political dynamics in CA wouldn't allow for this to be constructed I believe california has a similar program (or did at some time since Bakke), specifically for UC (the "higher tier" university system, versus cal state system)

ELC ( https://www.ucop.edu/enrollment-services/programs-and-initia... ). It doesn't get you into the top UC though (which Texas' program does), just any. There is wide variance in UC schools.

Yes and there are definitely CS schools which IMO are better than many UC (cal poly SLO e.g.)

And what is the "top" UC anyways. This is going to be an unpopular opinion but I personally think more favorably of UCSD over cal, and, for some disciplines Davis or SC over cal. UCLA is highly regarded across the board and probably exceeds cal, for, say pre-nursing program.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#447

Post by temp8964 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 11:18 PM UTC

tdhz77 wrote: post #428

rayiner wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black, Latino, and Asian people all oppose racial preferences in admission: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/25/most-americ... . For example Latinos say that race and ethnicity shouldn’t be even a “minor factor” in college admissions by a margin of 2:1. Like many things, this is in large part about liberal white people wanting to engage in social engineering on behalf of minorities who mostly don’t suppo…

[flagged]

So what is the correct understanding of affirmative action, you thinking people?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#448

Post by imwillofficial » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 11:19 PM UTC

tdhz77 wrote: post #378

xwdv wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. Any attributes like race and gender should play no consideration in a fair admissions process. It should not even be public information.

The color blind thinking modal has a long history of helping the majority stay the majority. What you propose is to continuing allow the status quo, which has already by statistical aggregation of college entrance proved to allow under performing “whites” in. Have you not seen the news where Aunt Becky got her kid in? Without tough affirmative action rules, Aunt becky’s kids get in and your kids don’t. This thinking…

> The color blind thinking modal has a long history of helping the majority stay the majority.

Come on guys, to be less racist we must be MORE racist!

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#449

Post by temp8964 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 11:20 PM UTC

gjhh244 wrote: post #391

tdhz77 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The color blind thinking modal has a long history of helping the majority stay the majority. What you propose is to continuing allow the status quo, which has already by statistical aggregation of college entrance proved to allow under performing “whites” in. Have you not seen the news where Aunt Becky got her kid in? Without tough affirmative action rules, Aunt becky’s kids get in and your kids don’t. This thinking…

Members of certain minorities aren't underrepresented because of their skin colour, but because they are more likely to be poor and lack access to quality education at childhood and youth. Racial discrimination against whites and Asians in higher education is not the best way to fix any of this. Progressive taxation, better childhood/youth education for everyone on the other hand could make a big difference.

Not just poor and lack access, also different culture.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#450

Post by an_opabinia » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 11:20 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #383

What I find very odd about this is the assumption that kids in challenging circumstances would have more problem with test prep than with keeping up their GPA. Poor people can afford test prep. Stuyvesant, NYC’s selective admission high school, has 50% of students living in poverty, and a 1300+ average SAT score. A couple of thousand dollars one time is something most Americans can scrape together. Gaming GPA is much…

Indeed, because of diminishing marginal returns on studying, even being in the 50th percentile of SAT test prep hours can improve your score by 10 percentiles. It’s hard to know how many students spend 0 hours studying but it is definitely the plurality if not more than 50%. However, implementing such a study program in schools has two obstacles: (1) is forcing a student to do more than zero hours of studying the same as doing more than zero hours of studying? Will such a student just zone out and get 0 gains, but your study will book positive time spent studying? (2) 80% of the exam score will still be explained by G factor.

I don’t know how many hours of studying 50th percentile is or whatever, by the way. This just comes from the math and the fact that the test scores are “ex Gaussian” - skewed normal, where the small skew is explained by everything that isn’t G, like studying.