Why is the university of California dropping the SAT? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#381

Post by truffdog » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

pfisherman wrote: post #15

I think the University of Texas has one of simplest and most egalitarian admissions policies that I have seen. If you graduate in the top 10 percent of your class, then you are guaranteed admission to all state funded universities. As a Californian I find it quite ironic that many policies in “conservative” Texas (ex. university admissions, property tax, income tax) are more much more progressive than what we have in…

Doesn't the UC have the same policy? It is the top 9%, but still- https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/admission-requi...

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#382

Post by tdhz77 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

I’m thankful for the diverse group of people that I studied with at the University of Missouri. Different backgrounds, point of views, and experiences added so much to the college experience. Diversity is such a great thing. We should do everything we can to promote it. My life is better, more enriched because of affirmative actions over the years.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#383

Post by rayiner » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

What I find very odd about this is the assumption that kids in challenging circumstances would have more problem with test prep than with keeping up their GPA. Poor people can afford test prep. Stuyvesant, NYC’s selective admission high school, has 50% of students living in poverty, and a 1300+ average SAT score. A couple of thousand dollars one time is something most Americans can scrape together.

Gaming GPA is much easier for privileged kids. My wife and I carefully manage her younger step siblings’ course schedules to maximize GPA. We schedule meetings with professors, counselors, schedule retakes and extra credit, etc. I can’t imagine how it would be easier for a kid with an unstable home life, who is moving around, maybe has parents getting divorced, etc., to keep up their GPA over several years than to do well on one test.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#384

Post by LatteLazy » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

Man up. Admit everyone who applies. Let the ones that can't meet the standard fail out and the ones that can stay. Everyone gets what they want.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#385

Post by waterhouse » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #339

starchild_3001 wrote: post #333

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything…

> Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! UC doesn’t control access to the SAT, it does control whether it uses the SAT. Not using it in its current form is the strongest influence it has to incentivize change.

So is your position that, while the SAT is still the best choice for admissions, UC should stop using it for some years in the hopes that this will motivate College Board to improve it more quickly, after which UC should resume using the SAT? That the impact (on future applicants and everyone else involved) of using a worse admissions process for some years is less than the bargaining-chip value?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#386

Post by cmh89 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

starchild_3001 wrote: post #333

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything…

Deciding whether or not the SAT is equitable, fair, or valuable shouldn't have any anecdotal component. For every one person with a story like yours, there is someone who had a bad experience with it for reasons outside of their control. I did exceptionally well in take home or book assignments because I understand the subject matter, but never was a good test taker. I took the ACT and did 'fine' but I could have done much better in an untimed, open book environment. What are we trying to measure with these tests? Your memory? Your ability to devote time to studying?

At the end of the day, tests like the ACT/SAT will always privilege people who can afford to spend more time on it. Lots of kids do better because their parents spend thousands on tutoring. Other kids of the same skill level do worse because they work 25 hours a week to help their family make rent. No amount of change in 'access' can overcome that.

Knowledge and skill is complicated and trying to boil it down to a timed test isn't a particularly useful measure.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#387

Post by rayiner » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

tdhz77 wrote: post #378

xwdv wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. Any attributes like race and gender should play no consideration in a fair admissions process. It should not even be public information.

The color blind thinking modal has a long history of helping the majority stay the majority. What you propose is to continuing allow the status quo, which has already by statistical aggregation of college entrance proved to allow under performing “whites” in. Have you not seen the news where Aunt Becky got her kid in? Without tough affirmative action rules, Aunt becky’s kids get in and your kids don’t. This thinking…

Black, Latino, and Asian people all oppose racial preferences in admission: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/25/most-americ.... For example Latinos say that race and ethnicity shouldn’t be even a “minor factor” in college admissions by a margin of 2:1.

Like many things, this is in large part about liberal white people wanting to engage in social engineering on behalf of minorities who mostly don’t support their policy. Like “defund the police.”

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#388

Post by madengr » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

908B64B197 wrote: post #340

starchild_3001 wrote: post #333

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything…

> I'm not even counted as "diverse" (because I'm not black or hispanic) despite coming from a muslim family and middle eastern background. I can only select "white", though I'm not white white. Should that even matter for admission purposes?

Why not just put down Black? If I can identify as an opposite sex, I can certainly identify as another race.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#389

Post by mbostleman » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

tdhz77 wrote: post #378

xwdv wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. Any attributes like race and gender should play no consideration in a fair admissions process. It should not even be public information.

The color blind thinking modal has a long history of helping the majority stay the majority. What you propose is to continuing allow the status quo, which has already by statistical aggregation of college entrance proved to allow under performing “whites” in. Have you not seen the news where Aunt Becky got her kid in? Without tough affirmative action rules, Aunt becky’s kids get in and your kids don’t. This thinking…

So racism is fundamentally good and the tool to use, but it just needs to be carefully guarded to be safe - sort of like nuclear power?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#390

Post by sjg007 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

honkycat wrote: post #231

gotoeleven wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bizarre canard that people keep running with. You can prep for the SAT but it adds 20-30 points at most. So mostly you can't prep for it. You certainly can't buy a high score. College sports is a racket though for sure.

So personalized tutoring does nothing to improve your score? What an absurd suggestion. That USED to be line line but it has since changed: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/05/...

Interesting I was 150 points of Stanford.. should’ve prepped.