Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Software is eating the car

spectrum.ieee.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 549 posts

Re: Software is eating the car

#441

Post by elihu »

InitialBP wrote: post #242
iagovar wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does mazdas use rotary engines for ll their cars?

Mazda hasn't sold a production car with a rotary engine in a while, I believe since the RX-8 went out of production. Due to the nature of rotary engines they inherently have worse emissions (more like a 2-stroke than a 4-stroke) and while people have been hoping for another production rotary from Mazda it's unclear if they will build another one or not.

I'm kind of hoping the LiquidPiston design works out, since in theory it should fix a lot of the fuel economy and emissions issues (combustion chamber is closer to the ideal round shape), and maybe even be lower maintenance (apex seals move to the non-moving part of the engine, where they can be lubricated more easily). It's not owned by Mazda, though, so even if it works it's anyone's guess if Mazda would even be able or want to license it. Or if gas engines in general will be effectively obsolete by the time the technology matures.

I love the idea of rotary engines, but environmentally they're a disaster (at least in their current form), and even if the problems are fixed they'll still not be significantly cleaner than any other gas engine.

(I'm currently working on trying to covert an RX-8 to electric.)

Re: Software is eating the car

#442

Post by elihu »

pgreenwood wrote: post #415
SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

Short answer to the lede: no, the industry cannot cope. Or rather, it will limp along with bloatware, bugs, and malware exactly the same way we see desktop OSes bloat, or the way we see routers and set-top boxes hacked to become botnets. In my 40+ years in the industry I've yet to see code get SMALLER. With the exception of Linux kernel 1.0 in the 90's which was a step backwards into smaller, more compact code, code…

I'm reminded of the joke "If Microsoft Made Cars" from the 90s. http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/pnw/microsoftjoke.htm And 25 years later here we are... ' For all of us who feel only the deepest love and affection for the way computers have enhanced our lives, read on. At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with technolo…

...and the hood would be welded shut at the factory.

Re: Software is eating the car

#443

Post by Infinitesimus »

nogridbag wrote: post #73
bobajeff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I like the tech behind Tesla but am turned off by. 1) The large, distracting screen in the front of the car. 2) The subscription model of the car's firmware. If electric cars ever become widespread I hope I can find a used one engineered without that stuff. Otherwise I may have to stop buying cars.

I recently purchased a Kia Telluride. Perhaps I'm now biased because I love the car, but I think it has an excellent combination of tech and usability. 1. It still has buttons and knobs for the things that should be buttons and knobs (e.g. climate control, volume, etc). 2. The heads up display is the killer feature that should be standard on all cars (as is only available on the top speced Telluride). It displays spe…

2021 Sonata (Limited) here and I echo your sentiment. I spent a lot of time and realized that only Hyundai and Kia provided a good mix of the things I wanted in a smart way.

Mazda's anti-touch stance makes it a non-starter for Android Auto/CarPlay

Toyota, Subaru and Honda have abysmal infotainment interfaces and didn't seem to invest in me enjoying the interior of a car.

Nissan CVTs have questionable reliability . Etc.

The lane keep assist on other average vehicles is so laughably had compared to what Hyundai and Kia have pulled off. These systems actually keep you centered instead of bouncing between lanes (hello Mazda). Blind spot cameras, birdseye cameras, HUD, little touches like the car slowing down automatically for you on some mapped curves when using cruise control etc. (Also I've used that stupid smart park thing waayy more than expected. I love it)

I'm still disappointed that car reviewers don't focus on such usability issues and instead rag on about performance of the engines or "its a toyonda so it is reliable" and ignore such small but practical tweaks.

Re: Software is eating the car

#444

Post by andredz »

yurishimo wrote: post #118
quacked wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks great. It reminds me of my microwave, which has two dials on it and is better than every other microwave I've ever owned.

Now go look up the Thermomix. Apparently pretty popular in AUS/NZ but very niche in the States and Europe(?). Cool idea, but I can't imagine they have a long life if being used with any sort of regularity.

I've been using mine for many years. The only big problems I've had is that sometimes the scale doesn't work perfectly and I have to reset the weighting and that after so long the blades have been getting a little blunt; but they can be sharpened.

Re: Software is eating the car

#445

Post by climb_stealth »

betwixthewires wrote: post #394
sbierwagen wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a car with an aftermarket radio that has a DVD player in it, which I've never used. When you turn it on, it displays a message warning you not to watch a DVD while driving. Sure, whatever. While the warning message is up, you cannot adjust the volume. I have to make sure to turn down the stereo before parking otherwise there's a solid five seconds on startup when it can't be turned down. Insane.

I just have to get in on this one. I have this old aftermarket $30 brand new at the time crappy little stereo. No optical drive, the thing doesn't even have an AM receiver. But it does take SD cards, USB drives and AUX. Perfect. That's exactly all an aftermarket system should do, maybe Bluetooth, but I don't use Bluetooth so I don't care. I can fit ~60 albums on one 8gb SD card. Goodbye buffering in the boonies, good…

My suggestion for getting SD card support is using a USB adapter. I'm using a Sandisk one [0]. It's quite small and hardly sticking out at all, and I just have it plugged in to the radio permanently.

Otherwise, my Pioneer DEH-X6650BT let's you switch between directories with a button press. Basically you have previous and next track, as well as previous and next directory. The toplevel is simply another directory. It also remembers where it left off after you start it, and it is super snappy with 19GB of MP3s that I have in various directories. Also, the manual is very explicit on what file system is supported, how many files and directories and in which order files are being played. See this page and the next one [1]. The only downside is that I can't seem to turn it off. As in it the radio is always illuminated, even when you are not playing anything.

[0] SanDisk MobileMate USB 3.0 Reader

https://shop.westerndigital.com/en-au/products/accessories/s...

[1] https://www.manualslib.com/manual/730613/Pioneer-Deh-X6650bt...

Re: Software is eating the car

#446

Post by kwdc »

What's the effective lifespan of a new car now? Software will likely shorten it in many ways. Especially with subscription models being so tempting for manufacturers. As the decades progress, will we care? But the street will find uses for these future old cars. Those powerpacks will be reused. Parts will be swapped.

Limiting factor: will manufacturers lock down components so they have a shorter and finite lifespan and/or compatibility? Very likely. The Right to Repair movement is still gaining traction. How this plays out will be quite a story.

I hope its not a repeat of most IoT where stuff frequently turns into junk within five years and usually heads off to some sad landfill.

Re: Software is eating the car

#447

Post by randcraw »

mavhc wrote: post #367
randcraw wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The features you mention aren't any more "smart" than an intermittent wiper is, which was invented long before electronics appeared in cars, much less digital logic. US luxury cars in 1965 had all the features you mention. They were delightfully dumb and simple to operate. That's what I want now: knobs, sliders, and buttons that move and click when my finger pushes them.

Do you want to pay more for them?

Adding labor saving devices always increases the price you pay for a product. I LIKE labor saving features, just so long as they don't get in my way or tell me what to do.

I just want a car to ENABLE me in intuitive ways and that don't go obsolete before the tires need replacing.

Re: Software is eating the car

#448

Post by rootusrootus »

wyre wrote: post #234
rootusrootus wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If electric cars ever become widespread Exclude Tesla and most all EVs on the road today are just normal cars that happen to be electric.

Why is special about Tesla that makes them not a “normal” car that happens to be electric?

Specifically, the post I was replying to was lamenting a future where EVs all try to be like Tesla, putting nearly 100% of the instrumentation and controls into a single large touchscreen.

This is unique to Tesla, AFAIK. It worked out very well, it is a brilliant cost-saving measure that can also be marketed as 'elegant'. Have to hand it to Musk on that one. The R&D required to build a normal car interior is expensive, so skipping most of it was a phenomenal move.

So anyway, my point is that there are lots of non-Tesla EV choices, and by-and-large almost all of them are just normal cars with normal dashboards and normal controls, just with electric power instead of gasoline. A few manufacturers seem to be trying to ape Tesla's design on their EVs, but personally I expect a reversion to the mean. Too many people could care less about driving a touchscreen.

Re: Software is eating the car

#449

Post by joshribakoff »

ajross wrote: post #371
joshribakoff wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Activating certain features in Tesla does in fact prompt a EULA (enabling autopilot, full self driving, and ludicrous mode all involve disclaimers which are legally EULA agreements. These pop up after you already bought the car, when you activate them under the settings menu for the first time)

Those are liability releases, not agreements over software licensing. In fact those features actually are sold legally as "parts" on the car you bought, there's no licensing scheme from Tesla yet. Though there is noise being made about offering a monthly license for FSD given that it's at $10k now and lots of people who would want to try it are priced out.

The definition of a EULA agreement is a legal contract that is executed by clicking a button. They often contain liability releases. What software license doesn’t?

> A EULA specifies in detail the rights and restrictions which apply to the use of the software.

> Many EULAs assert extensive liability limitations. Most commonly, an EULA will attempt to hold harmless the software licensor in the event that the software causes damage to the user's computer or data, but some software also proposes limitations on whether the licensor can be held liable for damage that arises through improper use of the software (for example, incorrectly using tax preparation software and incurring penalties as a result).

Quoting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement

Re: Software is eating the car

#450

Post by argonaut »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #423
azornathogron wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern cars have more design features that improve crash survivability (better airbags, better crumple zones, tested with more realistic crash tests, etc). Those seem like a pretty unalloyed improvement to me. I'm not saying you're wrong about the things you mentioned, but cars really have got safer, in important ways.

Unless you crash into something going highway speed a car from 1990 or 1980 is fine as long as you're wearing a seatbelt. The states look good because safety tech that only matters at the extreme end has improved so the drunks and distracted teenager who would have dies had they gone off a cliff in a 20-30yo car are now surviving. Basically the medium to low speed impacts that people not behaving particularly poorly…

This is too dismissive of the many ways people get into accidents. I got t-boned by someone who blew past a stop sign on a residential road. Side curtain airbags prevented me from hitting my head on my side window.
Post reply on HN