My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I • Hacker News Board

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#441

Post by tonyedgecombe » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

emteycz wrote: post #420

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should qualify that with American public education, there are lots of countries in the world that do better. In fact the country at the top of the table has pretty much banned private education.

You should consider that a lot of families in that country (Finland I assume) are moving abroad because having zero control over education of your child is not good, and schools in Helsinki might be nice, but it's not Helsinki everywhere. Even if the quality is OK, there are many kids that simply can't function in the classic subjects/tests/marks-oriented education system, and then there is bullying.

Families are moving from Finland to avoid their world leading education system? I'm doubtful.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#442

Post by Ancapistani » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

asldkjaslkdj wrote: post #268

Ancapistani wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've literally never met a 5-year-old who doesn't do things like this when they're upset. Really? I can't imagine either of my kids doing things like that - perhaps a brief outburst, sure, but it would have been immediately followed by an appropriate response from a parent. > My sense is that that, if you aren't currently trying to usher a preschooler through this experience, you don't actually know how your kid wo…

>perhaps a brief outburst, sure so you can imagine it... because it happens

The comment to which I was replying listed several things: “hit his parents, hit his brother, broke things, and spat a cup of juice all over my laptop.”

By “outburst”, I specifically mean “showing outward signs of intense emotion that they are unable to handle appropriately”.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#443

Post by blaser-waffle » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #308

actfrench wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of US kids are forced to sit still whether they're in front of a screen or in a physical classroom. Typically it's better in preschool, but many kindergarteners only get 20 minutes a day to play if that. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/learning/do-kids-need-rec...

I don’t see how that could possibly work, unless your goal is to create brain dead monkeys.

Our currently public school system was designed to produce factory workers and conscripts, no happy, healthy kids. And at the time, and given the level of resources then, that made sense.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#444

Post by learc83 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:01 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #285

learc83 wrote: post #97

Kids can't learn all day long in a classroom. I don't know why we expect them to be able to do it remotely. School has always been 1/3 learning 2/3 baby sitting. When my parents were kids, they only went to kindergarten for half a day.

Grade schools usually have recess too. (for the life of me, I can't recall what we did on rainy days)

We had recess when i was a kid too. It lasted for 15 minutes out of a nearly 8 hour day.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#445

Post by rdtwo » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

mordymoop wrote: post #297

grahamburger wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be weird to expect young children to sit in long Zoom meetings. Are people actually doing that? I have 3 kids, the oldest two are elementary-school age. So far virtually none of their online learning has been video conference based. The younger one would sometimes do Zoom calls with his pre-k class at the end of last year, but it was just a few minutes to see his friends and sing some songs, not really about…

In the spring, my five year old, who I would call unusually patient for his age, would sometimes break down crying and beg the teacher to let him leave the meeting. One thing that I’m not seeing discussed much is that these meetings are objectively a dehumanizing waste of the children’s time. Ten minutes to take roll, while everyone just sits there? If someone did something this pointless in a meeting of adults, they…

Ha my work absolutely would do something that pointless while paying everyone 50$+ an hour to do it. These are the skills you need to succeed at big inefficient corporations

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#446

Post by Shared404 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

hluska wrote: post #414

Shared404 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure it is. I went to a K to 12 school for my last 4ish years of HS, and the kindergartners (the kids, not just teachers) were already almost mind-dead cult like in "Prep for the test!" and "Go $TEAM!". There were a couple really good teachers across all levels of the school, but not enough.

My opinion was pretty close to yours in my late teens/twenties but as I’ve aged and become friends with teachers, my feelings have gotten more nuanced. Those teachers make very little money, receive virtually no support from parents and are more often than not treated like babysitters, not educators. Complicating matters, school divisions are so poorly funded that despite all of that, they still fund many classroom a…

To be clear, I am not blaming most teachers.

I can trace many of my current skills, interests and aspirations directly to several of my teachers, most often in contexts not directly related to their core subject.

There is the occasional teacher who is there to power trip, but they are by far the minority. The school system crushes teachers just as much as it does the kids.

Edit: Reread my comment you replied to, if I made it sound like the teachers were mind-dead, that was absolutely not my goal. I just wanted to specify that the kids themselves were like that, and worried it might be misinterpreted as the school itself being like that.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#447

Post by emteycz » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #441

emteycz wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should consider that a lot of families in that country (Finland I assume) are moving abroad because having zero control over education of your child is not good, and schools in Helsinki might be nice, but it's not Helsinki everywhere. Even if the quality is OK, there are many kids that simply can't function in the classic subjects/tests/marks-oriented education system, and then there is bullying.

Families are moving from Finland to avoid their world leading education system? I'm doubtful.

I am not saying there is an exodus, of course the Finnish system is excellent for many people, and it is so good that it does a good job even when the child does not fit exactly.

However yes, there are people that were forced to move away from Finland or other countries like it because their child had problems in the standardized schools, and there were cases of people that were criminalized for their different educational preferences.

I don't think that problems of the world and the competing economical ideologies should hinder education of children. While for-profit schooling exists, a large portion of private schools are cooperatives, nonprofits, informal groups etc, and private schooling is even recognized by the EU commision as extremely important in helping non-standard people. Private schools can only help, there is no way that a school that is at least average would do harm - it's the government's fault the public schools are failing, as is clear from the many and many countries where private, public, governmental, religious and other schools coexist peacefully.

Another point to consider is the differing needs of parents (e.g. the weird school-work schedule of a mother that still works on her Ph.d. while working as a researcher while having a baby; some people want to travel while their kids are young; ...); a public school simply won't accommodate to that.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#448

Post by originalbryan2 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:35 PM UTC

lovich wrote: post #81

dpcan wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 4 kids. I work from home. My wife works 11 hours a day away from the house. I feel like this world is full of "can't" people who aren't willing to do the extra work. We seem to have enough time to comment on Hacker News. To argue about masks on Facebook. To watch every TikTok, and spend hours on Twitter. But put in the necessary work to make learning at home productive. Nope, can't do that. We have put in the…

What exactly is your daily routine then. Raising 4 kids while working full time with your spouse working 11 hours outside of the house is a pretty large claim.

I've run into a number of dads that drive really hard, always at the expense of sleep. They seems to die early, 40s 50s. Might be possible.

I'm in a similar kids/work situation and it's going very rough at best. But then again I'm a completely terrible parent, barely capable as a normal functioning adult, and my kids inherited the coked up hummingbird trait from their mother.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#449

Post by lioeters » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

bonoboTP wrote: post #193

nradov wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kindergarten in the US became far more academically focused after the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, and the adoption of Common Core curriculum. Most schools also changed the age cutoff date for kindergarten so the average student is now slightly older.

Sounds really crazy to me, here in Hungary most kids start structured classes at 6 or 7 years old. Before that it's just playing outside, singing, listening to fairy tales, going to hiking trips, to the zoo etc. This tight grip on American kids looks extremely stressful and harmful (helicopter/bubble wrap parenting, structuring every waking hour with classes and extracurriculars, driving them everywhere, never leavin…

> ..playing outside, singing, listening to fairy tales, going to hiking trips, to the zoo..

That sounds like wonderful early childhood activities, healthy for the body and mind.

Having gone to a Japanese kindergarten, I remember it being a friendly experience, similar to what you described. However, as soon as basic school starts (6~7 years old), it can get stressful depending on the region, public/private school, and parents' social class and expectations.

Re: My kid can’t handle a virtual education, and neither can I

#450

Post by iceman2654 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #40

All of these comments make me think HN has never interacted with a 5 year old. Adults are barely able to make it through a day of Zoom meetings without feeling drained, how do you expect an almost toddler to react when forced to sit in front of a screen? The only reasons adults can do it is years and years of learning impulse controls and suppression of bad emotions for everyone's good. A 5 year old does not have the…

Honest question - Is it the video conferencing technology or the lack of famaliarity with the medium? I've been video coneferencing and working with developers remotely since my early 20s and never felt tired as a result of it. I could see someone who's not used to doing all day finding it a jarring experience. But wouldn't that just discipate in time as the individual adapts? Anyone else feel the same way?