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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#441

Post by ghaff »

lr4444lr wrote: post #344
jeffbee wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is generally true. You can bike right out of San Francisco over the Golden Gate Bridge and be away from the city in minutes. You can walk or bike out of the west side of silicon valley into a huge area of contiguous parkland. If you leave San Jose in the right direction you could hike for days without seeing anyone.

You can bike right out of Philly and Boise and get the same things. Maybe even more beauty. Why should we pay SF prices for the privilege?

I don't live in California, though I've spent a lot of time there, and don't know much about Boise. But, having grown-up outside of Philadelphia, no there's nothing equivalent to Marin County a few miles away. Yes, there's a nice river and various parks but it's not the Bay Area.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#442

Post by colechristensen »

rtlfe wrote: post #418
justchilly wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

> People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them?

SF has an extreme homelessness problem, there are places where you can walk two blocks from posh shops to tent lined streets and open air drug markets. Working at a previous gig had me looking at the ground carefully to avoid stepping on needles, feces, and humans, all of which were nearly daily obstacles.

Because of the mild weather and culture, SF is somewhat of a destination for the homeless which is less of an issue, but it wasn’t clear that the city was doing nearly enough to address the filth and human tragedy plaguing the streets.

It is also so expensive that bars and restaurants (before covid) had a hard time hiring because working at an SF restaurant meant either living in squalor packed in somewhere or living extremely far away and commuting. Thus everything opened late and closed early. The food scene was overrated, most of the artists left for the east bay or LA, and the charming things about the city seemed like they were only still there because of fantasy or stubborn inertia.

Other cities have room and willingness to build or the courage to restrict business growth if not willing to expand residential growth. People and businesses are much more willing to leave other cities, and that supply/demand elasticity makes problems fix themselves, but other cities don’t have the romanticism/reality disconnect in nearly the same way.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#443

Post by 205guy »

shortandsweet wrote: post #253
adjkant wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you mind giving examples of what you have access to in NYC when so many things are shuttered right now? Right now, I've basically reallocated my budget of city activities towards local restaurants, and I've been eating a ton of great delivery. As the cases have slowed, I'm cautiously considering outdoor dining. Either way, I'm eating great food right now. I live in Brooklyn, so Prospect Park (central park of the…

Take your fake wall. I have the sierras at my back door.

So uncharitable, and false. Unless you were already remote in Gold Country or Markleeville, your “back door” was a 3-5 hour drive each way, depending on traffic. Kinda kills your efficient carbon footprint for living in a city. Been there, done that, moved away from the Bay Area to avoid exactly that. And I would climb at Mission Cliffs after work to be ready for that weekend in the Sierra—-and wasn’t alone in doing so.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#444

Post by bluedino »

fiblye wrote: post #346
baron816 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternate experience: I just moved into SF a week ago from elsewhere in the Bay. I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K + almost a 1 month concession and no deposit. Being a single, young(ish) guy, it still makes sense to be in a city. I have more space than I need now, and I can afford the rent. Maybe things aren’t that nice right now, but I’m hoping they’ll get back to semi…

> I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K This sounds like a joke about just how absurd SF rents are.

That’s a deal, it’s not much higher than it was ten years ago (oddly enough, when it was already insanely high)

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#445

Post by 01100011 »

vmception wrote: post #387
momokoko wrote: post #142

I think you have to realize this is San Francisco specifically. Not the entire Bay Area. A lot of people worked in places south of San Francisco and then commuted south because SF is basically the only city nearby that isn’t awful. But now that everything is closed down, all the good parts of SF are generally gone. Who wants to live in a cramped apartment with too many roommates and no yard? The trade was always that…

> A lot of people worked in places south of San Francisco and then commuted south because SF is basically the only city nearby that isn’t awful. I agree, but I have found it so interesting that so many people on the peninsula or south bay are completely fearful of San Francisco! Its the opposite view of what you wrote. More of a classic "everything is scary except my suburb" misconception. I've seen it in other place…

I've had different experiences every time I've gone to the city. During my last visit, we steered clear of market and spent a nice day in Mission/Castro/Japantown. On one of my previous visits, I had a guy threaten me. The city is a mixed bag. The only other west coast city I can compare it to is Seattle. Outside of SF and Seattle, every west coast city I've been to has been almost 100% peaceful, safe and enjoyable.

The only time I've ever heard of a friend getting mugged was in SF.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#446

Post by petersellers »

jonahbenton wrote: post #392
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it?

To be blunt- the other side of the deal is REALLY INTERESTED in having a party committed to 30 years of payments on a valuation that, they realize, almost certainly has to drop. Mortgage interest could be 0.5% and lenders would...probably still make the deal.

I don't buy this argument.

The property itself is collateral for the loan. If the value of the property tanks, and then the owner is also unable to pay their mortgage due to not having a job, then in many cases the bank ends up holding the bag. This happened quite a bit during the Great Recession.

Also, given the way that the Fed has been pushing interest rates to near zero, and with the chance that they could go negative (which I find pretty unlikely, but everything seems so wild right now so who knows) there is a chance that inflation could come into play and keep property values high.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#447

Post by baron816 »

akavi wrote: post #395
baron816 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

820sf and right between those two neighborhoods.

> right between those two neighborhoods So, in the tenderloin? Suddenly not a great deal.

Not quite the Tenderloin. It’s technically Civic Center. Yes, there’s plenty of homeless around, but that’s just SF, right?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#448

Post by johnyzee »

ravenstine wrote: post #47

Putting any valid criticism of this article aside, anecdotally, I know a bunch of people who have either left or are in the process of leaving California in the last few months. One of them just left SF. In other news, one of my cousins is seriously working towards moving out of NY. 3 of my team members have moved to smaller parts of the country. Simply speaking, my gut tells me this isn't just about San Francisco. T…

This is a real and global trend. Same thing is happening in European capitals right now. People, especially singles and young couples, are wondering why they are paying a huge portion of their income in rent in order to be in the city, when they can't go out anyway. Almost all big companies are working remote. If you are not too tied down, it's obvious to make the move.

I don't think most people realize how similar the dynamics are in developed economies across the world, and, consequently, what a big impact this, along with everything else going on, could have on the global economy.

For sure, the immediate cause of the issue is the corona virus, but a large economic impact might not be easy to just roll back, even after that (hopefully) is resolved.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#449

Post by brian_cunnie »

jurassic wrote: post #431
rtlfe wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them?

Here's a short list to get you started: - Homeless issues. Mentally ill people pissing and defecating on the sidewalks in every significant public space. - Vehicle vandalism is extremely common and unchecked by police. - Extremely high income taxes with no perceivable difference in government-provided services. - Property tax law that advantages long-term owners over young people trying to buy at today's inflated pri…

> Vehicle vandalism is extremely common and unchecked by police.

I believe the problem is more nuanced. I spoke with a retired police officer, and he said, "we can only give them a citation, and they [the vandals] know that, that they're gonna be out the same day."

In other words, the law is the problem, not the police.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#450

Post by lovecg »

sandworm101 wrote: post #432
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven’t, NYC is also boring now. With unemployment rising and poor benefits, civil unrest, and shitty containment policies; I’m thinking about riding the rest of this out back in Canada so we don’t get robbed/assaulted.

>> riding the rest of this out back in Canada so we don’t get robbed/assaulted. Better come home quick. Canada is getting more than a little afraid of how badly the US is handling the covid thing. Politeness only goes so far. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53742684 "While the border closure has had significant economic and personal repercussions for the millions of people that live along it or have loved on…

That’s for tourists. No one is talking about closing the border to Canadian citizens coming home. Pandemic or not this seems completely unimaginable.
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