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Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

reuters.com

441–450 of 568 posts

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#441
post #323
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you got a link / source for this? Genuinely interested, not being a dick.

From what I heard it works fine on Android, but on iOS it works ok... as long as you have the app running in the foreground, and your phone unlocked, while out and about. The only way to fix that would be to use this new API on iOS.

Since people seem to be downvoting without commenting: https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/05/covidsafe-issues-ios-ipho...

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#442

I have to say, working at Apple and knowing all the hard work that goes into this and making sure your data stays private while also being able to combat this disease, it's very frustrating to read a lot of the comments here. I can understand why the public is skeptical, but I feel like as a society we've swung so far away from institutional trust that now nothing good can actually emerge. The anti-vax movement is a…

Institutional trust has been eroding since Watergate and almost non-existent since Snowden leaks.

Seeing Apples name on the PRISM slide was a gut bunch, you dont and will never get blind trust anymore.

Saying this is similar to the anti-vax movement is so frustrating for me to read when special closed courts are set up in my country to deliver verdicts on the legality of data acquisition and they STILL found the GCHQ overeached and illegally spied on citizens.

The UK gov has even decided to not use the API provided by Apple here so if I could trust Apple (which I don't) its being undermined by the fact the government decided to take Palantir on to help make it and it looks like they are getting involved in the US effort too.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#443

The title of this article is incorrect. FTA: “Apple […] and […] Google on Monday said they would ban the use of location tracking in apps that use a new contact tracing system the two are building ”. So, contact tracing apps that don’t use that system, such as the one from the UK ( https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52441428 ) still would be allowed to do location tracking.

But will anyone use them? I wouldn't trust an app which has been outsourced and feeds data to palantir: https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2020/04/nhs-opts-f... https://www.hsj.co.uk/technology-and-innovation/exclusive-wo... The Apple/Google solution sounds much better to me - no central datastore.

Oh the UK government has got a great plan for that - they're going to stick the NHS logo on it. That way people will incorrectly think it's trustworthy, and when they find out it wasn't it'll damage the reputation of the NHS - which is a key goal of the current government.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#444

I have to say, working at Apple and knowing all the hard work that goes into this and making sure your data stays private while also being able to combat this disease, it's very frustrating to read a lot of the comments here. I can understand why the public is skeptical, but I feel like as a society we've swung so far away from institutional trust that now nothing good can actually emerge. The anti-vax movement is a…

I've long felt like Apple is uniquely easy to distrust, due to its almost total lack of visible employees. I assume there are actual people working there, but I've never seen one, say, speak (openly) at a meetup or answer a stackoverflow question, or the like. ~Everything I know about Apple either comes from an advertisement or from a guy who talked to a guy who talked to Gruber, and I have a feeling that that makes…

Well there's WWDC of course. But I suppose that's not really "out in the world".

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#445
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I don't think this is accurate. From what I recall, the US was/is spying on the major tech companies and would regularly demand data and place gag orders on those companies. Neither actions are willful forms of data transfer. The first is actually an eternal game of cat and mouse. NSA finds a leak for some data, Google fixes it, new leak, etc. The second is targeted handover of data, and only affects a few indi…

>Equating these with the US government having full access to everyone's data is misleading. If you think otherwise, please provide more detail. By everyone you mean "US citizens" because from my understanding non-US citizens are fair game and it it legal to spy on them.

No, they aren't allowed to hand over data on EU citizens either, that would break GDPR. USA wouldn't go after them for this but EU definitely would.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#446
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the notion of trusting any company over a certain size is crazy - I wish people would stop anthropomorphizing companies that way. Basically, I can trust specific people if I feel that I know their character, and by proxy I might trust a company that these people have significant control over. Once a company reaches a certain size, any power that individual employees wield will have been diluted to microscopic…

I kind of disagree with this. If a company publicly claims to follow certain principles and vows to have mechanisms in place to protect user privacy, people on the inside are able to judge if those principles are being followed. The larger a company is, the lower are chances that everyone would stay silent in case of a (systematic) breach of those principles. So in a sense, it's much harder for larger companies to se…

But history has proven this wrong. e.g, how did the entire German population wilfully engage in something that they now consider very wrong and ashamed about (WW2)?? (Quite a generalisation I know, but it's an example of a lot of people going along with something they may not entirely agree with, not comparing Apple to the Nazis BTW, nor am I saying that every single person went along with it).

I am merely saying that if it is possible at a national level, it is possible at a company level. If it is a culture where you work you can quickly become swept along with it.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#447
post #442

I have to say, working at Apple and knowing all the hard work that goes into this and making sure your data stays private while also being able to combat this disease, it's very frustrating to read a lot of the comments here. I can understand why the public is skeptical, but I feel like as a society we've swung so far away from institutional trust that now nothing good can actually emerge. The anti-vax movement is a…

Institutional trust has been eroding since Watergate and almost non-existent since Snowden leaks. Seeing Apples name on the PRISM slide was a gut bunch, you dont and will never get blind trust anymore. Saying this is similar to the anti-vax movement is so frustrating for me to read when special closed courts are set up in my country to deliver verdicts on the legality of data acquisition and they STILL found the GCHQ…

Yeah but it is still Palantir, so maybe don't trust the government's judgement that much.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a lifelong public servant, welcome to the ungrateful side of life. If you're providing a service to the public with the hopes of their gratitude, you will be sad. Do it for the same reason you change your baby's diaper: you love them and it needs doing. They might take pleasure in pissing on you while you're doing it, but this thing you love will be better off afterward.

It's nice to have some people like you, but a significant amount of public servants I encountered visibly took pressure in making the life of other's miserable, and the processes as convoluted as possible.

Were they aware that the process was convoluted, or did they simply not realise how obtuse they were making it?

I have worked with people who "designed" terrible systems or couldn't see that a system would never work, yet still attempted to operate it. It was like they were unaware of the dysfunctional state of it, yet it had to exist because their job was to "design".

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#449

I have to say, working at Apple and knowing all the hard work that goes into this and making sure your data stays private while also being able to combat this disease, it's very frustrating to read a lot of the comments here. I can understand why the public is skeptical, but I feel like as a society we've swung so far away from institutional trust that now nothing good can actually emerge. The anti-vax movement is a…

Amazing. A pretentious, emotionally-manipulative version of "if you don't trust closed-sourced public corporate #43214 you're basically an anti-vaxxer!" is the most upvoted comment in this HN thread. Hilarious

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Equating these with the US government having full access to everyone's data is misleading. If you think otherwise, please provide more detail. By everyone you mean "US citizens" because from my understanding non-US citizens are fair game and it it legal to spy on them.

No, they aren't allowed to hand over data on EU citizens either, that would break GDPR. USA wouldn't go after them for this but EU definitely would.

What about non EU citizens? Do you think NSA won't try to get the realtime location of EU and nonEU politicians? They can claim is for national security, would GDPR stop that?
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