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Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

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Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#441

Post by DavidVoid »

djsumdog wrote: post #118
oldsklgdfth wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RFI: I'm interested in learning more about an alternative strategy to the lockdown.

Sweden has open schools, movie theaters, restaurants (limited people; tables further apart) and bars (can't buy beer). People are working from home when they can. High risk people and older people are told to self isolate. Their hospitals are not overwhelmed. Their people do no wear masks. They hope the infection can spread slowly and they can deal with it. Sweden is criticized heavily, but if their strategy works, t…

> movie theatres

Only two of Filmstaden's cinemas are open and they are by far the biggest cinema chain in the country. So to say that movie theatres are open is pretty disingenuous.

There was never a law that forced them to close though, they took that initiative themselves after the government started recommending that large crowds should be avoided. The same goes for all the ski resorts which are now closed.

Sweden's approach is also heavily based on the idea that people who have any symptoms are able to stay home from work. In countries where the workers' rights aren't as strong, that is much more difficult to achieve without stricter regulations.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#442

Post by sethammons »

markbnj wrote: post #305

I usually stay out of the political/topical threads on HN but this is personal to me. From my point of view few if any of us commenting here are knowledgeable enough to connect all the disparate data points we keep snatching at and synthesize them into conclusions that are likely to be correct. The people who can do that are working on it, and generally too busy at the moment to post on forums or give interviews. The…

> We can absolutely make it through a few months if we have to

What I hear from those I talk with: at what cost? Businesses are permanently closing. People are losing jobs. One report suggested 30% unemployment as an optimistic stat and that is worse than the Great Depression. Another report was that 50% of people under 45 have lost hours, been furloughed, or been laid off. 80% of Americans don’t have $500 in case of an emergency.

A lot of people are more scared of losing their home than of dying even if mortality rates are over 10%. They hear news that mostly immunodeficient and the elderly are at risk and many feel that those populations should keep under quarantine while the rest get back to business as usual.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#443

Post by ubercow13 »

alyx wrote: post #196
czardoz wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about this as if a "calculated risk" is limited to that individual, but it's not. Someone's "calculated risk" is literally death knell for others. In this case, the health of the society as a whole is at stake. Therefore, people need to collectively follow rules, and understand that minor inconveniences such as not being able to get a haircut will only affect them for a few weeks or months.

I don’t think you read his post. You are endangering others‘ lives each time you drive. And yet you’re not inline at the DMV surrendering your license, why? Seasonal sickness also isn’t new. My coworker gave me the flu and I gave it to my grandmother. Who’s at fault there?

Some of the UK/US response was supposedly based on this study [0], which predicted maybe 250,000 deaths if there was no lockdown. That's something like 140 years worth of traffic deaths for the UK, in one go. So yes, we take calculated risks all the time, but the comparison to driving isn't useful IMO.

[0] https://www.ft.com/content/16764a22-69ca-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcc...

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#444

Post by nulbyte »

sunnydayddr wrote: post #403
grandmczeb wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment right now is $1050 a week here in California ($450 state + $600 federal). Should be noted $2000 CAD is ~$1400 USD also.

Did you mean $1050 a month? $1050 a week seems like a lot.

Yes, weekly. The $600 from the fed is new in response to the pandemic.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#445

Post by llcoolv »

chimprich wrote: post #437
llcoolv wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... with their own lives. You're talking about allowing people to risk other people's lives, and no, that's not ok. So, let's ban driving then?

In my country we don't just let people drive however they like on public roads. You have to be above a certain age, have passed a test, not be drunk or stoned, be driving a roadworthy vehicle, and follow many other rules. Your risk to other people's lives is carefully managed.

And yet it is the leading cause of premature death among accidents and thousands of times less safe than alternatives such as trains or airplanes and... surprise, surprise - staying at home!

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#446

Post by 101404 »

pjc50 wrote: post #438
markbnj wrote: post #305

I usually stay out of the political/topical threads on HN but this is personal to me. From my point of view few if any of us commenting here are knowledgeable enough to connect all the disparate data points we keep snatching at and synthesize them into conclusions that are likely to be correct. The people who can do that are working on it, and generally too busy at the moment to post on forums or give interviews. The…

Something I've been wondering for a while is how long Facebook et al would let conspiracy stuff run wild once it came close to damaging their own interests. It's one thing to look at a forest fire from a distance and say "it's people's right to play with matches", quite another thing when it reaches your own office. Neither Facebook staff nor management are immune to the consequences of a pandemic. There is a legitim…

Always remember that "the NSA is spying on everybody" was "conspiracy stuff" too. Right until it wasn't.

And regarding Corona: Sweden never introduced a quarantine, and they seem to be in good shape compared to others. Not saying I agree with that policy, because I don't. But the topic isn't as "black and white" as it appears.

Here in Germany, as of today, many of the already few restrictions where lifted as well.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#447

Post by sethammons »

echelon wrote: post #390
roenxi wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I don't know if what is going on really makes sense or not, and I'm pretty happy to wait 6 months before I decide myself who should and shouldn't have done what - apart from the obvious stuff like the US CDC banning private companies from selling test kits has to be the stupidest crisis response I've seen in my lifetime. The reaction is going to look stupid in hindsight whatever happens, people were forced to mak…

> the US CDC banning private companies from selling test kits has to be the stupidest crisis response I've seen in my lifetime. What happens when the kits are faulty or non-experts interpret the data? Lots of folks will think they're safe and go home to visit at-risk elders. > All that said 'the hospitals are being overwhelmed' isn't a good reason to shut down most of the economy. The hospitals are overwhelmed, so th…

> The hospitals are overwhelmed

In our area, nurses have been furloughed because there is not enough going on at the hospitals and clinics to bill and thus pay for the staff.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#448

Post by DanBC »

101404 wrote: post #446
pjc50 wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I've been wondering for a while is how long Facebook et al would let conspiracy stuff run wild once it came close to damaging their own interests. It's one thing to look at a forest fire from a distance and say "it's people's right to play with matches", quite another thing when it reaches your own office. Neither Facebook staff nor management are immune to the consequences of a pandemic. There is a legitim…

Always remember that "the NSA is spying on everybody" was "conspiracy stuff" too. Right until it wasn't. And regarding Corona: Sweden never introduced a quarantine, and they seem to be in good shape compared to others. Not saying I agree with that policy, because I don't. But the topic isn't as "black and white" as it appears. Here in Germany, as of today, many of the already few restrictions where lifted as well.

Sweden has considerably more total deaths and deaths per capita than their neighbours Norway and Denmark.

Sweden is currently seeing an increase in both confirmed cases and deaths.

The only reason things aren't worse in Sweden is that they've implemented a mild form of lockdown. There's a lot of debate in Sweden about their approach, and plenty of people think they need to be on tighter lockdowns.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#449

Post by panpanna »

thu2111 wrote: post #411
markbnj wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> My father is currently in a hospital for an unrelated reason and it's almost empty -> they are 'prepared for war' and there isn't a single COVID patient in the entire area, let alone hospital. They are all empty. Which is just as anecdotal. The virus doesn't spread everywhere at once, and there are a lot of places in the country/world that aren't NYC/North Jersey yet. If they have similar population density and do…

Yet? Recall that the outbreak started in central Europe weeks before the USA locked down. Even in the harder hit countries, there are quiet hospitals almost everywhere. Look at Switzerland - it shares a huge land border with northern Italy and has large numbers of people who move across the borders, it volunteered to take Italian patients in. Swiss hospitals are receiving financial bailouts because they're so quiet,…

> There's no evidence lawmakers have any better insight into what's going on than anyone else, and quite a bit of evidence they may have worse insight

I got some news for you: these protests seem to be indirectly financed by powerful politicians.

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/16/conservative-grouplinked-to...

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#450

Post by IAmEveryone »

djsumdog wrote: post #118
oldsklgdfth wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RFI: I'm interested in learning more about an alternative strategy to the lockdown.

Sweden has open schools, movie theaters, restaurants (limited people; tables further apart) and bars (can't buy beer). People are working from home when they can. High risk people and older people are told to self isolate. Their hospitals are not overwhelmed. Their people do no wear masks. They hope the infection can spread slowly and they can deal with it. Sweden is criticized heavily, but if their strategy works, t…

Sweden has 5x the number of deaths as it's close neighbour, Norway. These are very similar countries with completely different strategies.
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