Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We Have Ruined Childhood

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 505 posts

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#441

Post by Apofis »

codingslave wrote: post #301
Grzegrzolka wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is just slowly rotting away. From what I read here about how modern life in US looks like I seriously suspect that there will be some kind of massive epidemic mind deseases outburst there in 15-30 years.

Yeah, I agree. There's real issues that arent being addressed, and maybe they can't be addressed. I consider myself smart, but can't really tell whats true anymore. Which side should I be on, why is the USA declining, its complicated

Not enough is being said publicly. This is one of the main issues.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#442

Post by big_chungus »

alkonaut wrote: post #291
big_chungus wrote: post #169

This is what is called a "positional arms race". A comparable situation can be seen in football players and steroids. One does it, so all feel they must do it or be "left behind". For all this struggle, no one is better and most are where they started. Now they must also deal with the huge medical issues that steroids can cause. If every one stopped, all would be better. However, no one wants to be the "sucker" who s…

The question is, why aren't more outcomes acceptable? Why do parents feel a social pressure to make heir kids belong to a certain percentile of "successful" young adults? It could be many explanations, but it's definitely more prominent in the US and China (among middle class/upper middle class) than in e.g. the Netherlands or Sweden. So let's ask: what's the difference? Why do I not need to take my kids to extra cur…

> I know that if my kid screws up, they'll still be comfortable (have healthcare, pension,...)

There are a few issues with this, the most glaring that people live longer. You can't live till 80 and expect to stop working at 65; pensions are supposed to pay for the last year or two if you live longer than usual.

> Higher education is free so It's not an "investment" or a "risk" that needs to pay off for me or them. I hope they'll study because they find it interesting. If they do, they won't need a great career to pay of student debt.

It is an investment by some one. If free, it's an investment by society. If suddenly I'm paying for Joey's college, I'd feel I get to tell him to study engineering (or some other high-paying field) rather than poetry, as it's my nickel on which he's going. That's society's right when it pays, because the return would be payed later on in taxes to fund my retirement, in your vision of how this works. In any case, this is always an investment. Putting in years of a life is investment for the student; tuition is an investment for whoever pays. How else do you justify spending many thousands of my tax dollars to let some kid study what's "interesting" and go to parties? Why ought I to pay for that?

> Admission to higher education is never made on soft or arbitrary values such as past participation in extra curricular activities. If my kid scores better on the standardized test, they'll snag a position at the best school over any a kid that is the child of a billionaire who was always president of all clubs and plays 24 musical instruments.

How do you propose to force this? The best schools are private. Also, standardized tests are a poor predictor of future success [0] [1] [2] [3]. Finally, the idea of one "all-or-nothing" test for which you can just cram for a few months (while slacking off for the rest of high school) is silly.

> Education isn't very competitive. In 20 years of school I never saw a "ranking" where anyones results or grades were published, e.g. where someone was declared "top of class" or similar.

Depends which part you're in. The best is always competitive. Also, I thought many teachers (and definitely profs) posted grade lists publicly?

Here's the core problem: every one keeps demanding an economic system that provides not liberty but essentially "freedom from hardship". Every one just wants to eat, and have health care, and a house, and vacation, and retirement, and a stable, comfortable, life. No economic system can guarantee you that. We have limited wants and unlimited needs. Population is growing, and may well out-pace economic growth. Many issues simply cannot be directly controlled by governments. Voting for utopia usually leads to disaster.

[0]: https://www.edsurge.com/news/2017-08-31-what-happens-when-st...

[1]: https://news.psu.edu/story/165456/2010/08/23/standardized-te...

[2]: https://qz.com/853128/grades-not-iq-or-standardized-test-sco...

[3]: https://www.pennlive.com/opinion/2016/03/test_scores_arent_a...

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#443

Post by jefurii »

linuxftw wrote: post #422
wincy wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “school system” used to be “20 parents in a town agree to pay a teacher to live here and teach”. If she did a bad job she’d be fired. The incentives are right that way, now the “customer” (ostensibly the parents, or the child) is no longer actually the customer.

A lot of places have charter schools now. Pretty much has come full circle. Nobody uses public school unless they have to.

That's anti-public school FUD paid for by the charter/private school lobby. linuxftw, you remember FUD dont you?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#444

Post by phry »

redskull wrote: post #424

Welp...we have these trash leftist teachers...teaching children that this is a "terrible place" and socialism is better...I truly blame all of this on schools....and it needs to change...Awesome a teacher has a leftist ideology...YOUR own personal opinions should stay far away from children especially when they are trash...Saddest part is kid's don't even get taught History correctly anymore. which is MINDBLOWING

you're completely deranged. socialism/communism is barely mentioned at all in the public school system, and never in a positive light. the genocide of native americans was not discussed outside of a cursory mention of the Trail of Tears. watching 'Roots' was about the depth of instruction on slavery. I never heard a single critical word about the US from any teacher, and I was in the public school system all the way through college. I never even had to read Howard Zinn, the classic conservative boogeyman, a single time for any class.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#445

Post by wastedhours »

jefurii wrote: post #439
wastedhours wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> be there: work less, hangout more I keep running across this sentiment, and although I don't have kids yet, is one I intend to take to heart. "Quality time" is largely BS - making time for a piano recital is pointless and can barely make up for the time if you miss the fun and general bonding the rest of the time. I remember the times sat eating dinner on the sofa in front the TV having a laugh with my parents more…

If "quality time" means having actual conversations, some of the best quality time I have with my son is driving to/from school or lessons and playing co-op video games.

I mean "quality time" as in the cop out from lots of parents whereby they ignore their children apart from "freeing up Saturday afternoon to spend quality time with the kids". As if they can schedule their bonding time like they would their fortnightly KPI meeting.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#446

Post by microcolonel »

blaser-waffle wrote: post #411
microcolonel wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar Of course, this is all because of lies and locked-in unintended consequences. The schools have no practical reason to be on their knees financially…

This reads like a Koch sponsored hit-list for pushing privatized schools. "Needs more standards!" "Can't fire teachers because teachers unions are literally the devil!" "Social Justice Warriors are ruining everything!"

> "Needs more standards!"

That's not what I mean by standards. I mean standards in the sense of "No, I wouldn't date her, I have standards." not as in International Organization for Standardization.

I don't see why you have to be a jerk about this, just present your opinion and we can have a civil conversation.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#447

Post by microcolonel »

nostalgk wrote: post #435
microcolonel wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar Of course, this is all because of lies and locked-in unintended consequences. The schools have no practical reason to be on their knees financially…

You sound like you might have some solid points in here. Next time try adding a few citations, and less rants about your perception of young adult women.

Sorry I don't really have any reason to meet young men, I can't tell you anything about them.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#448

Post by Zak »

llukas wrote: post #399
9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't happen that often, that's the point. People are afraid everything and everyone. We euros tend to forget how big USA really is. Of course all sort of shit happens.

EU has more citizens than USA and it is unthinkable that such thing would happen in EU.

That may be true, but it illustrates an important point: we shouldn't need tragedies to be unthinkable in order to make reasonable decisions about their probability.

We don't do this in every situation. Most American parents transport their kids by car without giving the risk much thought, though car crashes kill significantly more children than homicide in the US (source: CDC). I'm not sure there's a good solution to the cognitive bias of discounting relatively mundane risks.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#449

Post by microcolonel »

jefurii wrote: post #443
linuxftw wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of places have charter schools now. Pretty much has come full circle. Nobody uses public school unless they have to.

That's anti-public school FUD paid for by the charter/private school lobby. linuxftw, you remember FUD dont you?

Or is this anti-charter-school FUD paid for by the union/public school lobby?

This is not a convincing counterargument, even though sometimes it's a convincing original argument.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#450

Post by war1025 »

linuxftw wrote: post #422
wincy wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “school system” used to be “20 parents in a town agree to pay a teacher to live here and teach”. If she did a bad job she’d be fired. The incentives are right that way, now the “customer” (ostensibly the parents, or the child) is no longer actually the customer.

A lot of places have charter schools now. Pretty much has come full circle. Nobody uses public school unless they have to.

Depends a lot on the area I'd guess. Here in Iowa people are generally pretty happy with the public schools in my experience.
Post reply on HN