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Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

latimes.com

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Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#441

Post by expertentipp »

poutrathor wrote: post #372
frenchdev wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked for 5 diferent french companies as a developper and this is so true. They all complain because they can't find developpers, sometimes its not even that they can't find "good" developpers its just that they can't find any developpers willing to work for them. Then when you see what they wan't to pay i just laugh. Someone helping on a kitchen in a restaurant can earn the same as a developper here in franc…

The sad truth is that Big Companies are always cutting prices. It's impossible to get contracts at decent prices to shovel it down to the devs. I see both sides of the equation and in France you can't get clients if daily rates are too highs ; then you struggle to pay people what they truly deserve. Our devs are not paid enough to save projects poorly down by half-competent team from big SSII that undercut everyone e…

> And then the client is saying : "how can it takes so long ? I am only asking for this feature from Dropbox, that one from Google, a Facebook like feed and some Whatsapp notifications, all synchronised with these existing applications ! NOTHING HARD to do here !"

People use these fancy features for free by companies having billions of budget and income... then they want the same features from you, also for free:)

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#442

Post by johnchristopher »

koolba wrote: post #63
muse900 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My example comes from Greece where I reside for the past 9 months. People owning touristic buisnesses on the islands are moaning about how much they need more staff and can't find any, and they are arguing why younger people tend to not work and just receive benefits instead of going to work. The argument here that they won't understand though is that, 1st they are paying very low. They are all willing to pay the min…

> The unemployment benefit is 400+ euros per month. So tell me who in their right minds would go to work for 500 euros or even 800 euros, whilst they have to spend petrol to get from and to work, work prolly 10+ hours a day, in the sun most likely cause thats what means tourism industry, There are always people who don't just want to live off the dole. Also a lot of the people who complain about crappy entry level wa…

>> ... get told by 'BOSSES' on what to do,

> That's kind of the norm at any job. I'm curious what alternative you propose, a commune where workers decide on their own what they'll be working on?

Did you ever work in the hotel industry as a low-level worker ?

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#443

Post by johnchristopher »

misja111 wrote: post #130
muse900 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My example comes from Greece where I reside for the past 9 months. People owning touristic buisnesses on the islands are moaning about how much they need more staff and can't find any, and they are arguing why younger people tend to not work and just receive benefits instead of going to work. The argument here that they won't understand though is that, 1st they are paying very low. They are all willing to pay the min…

Interesting, would this be a case that shows that basic income wouldn't work?

Really frustrating to hear that argument. It's the same the right is making across Europe: "Just remove the social security net, then people will be forced to accept any wage.".

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#444

Post by jhasse »

morsma wrote: post #388
jhasse wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state enables a lot of stuff for you in return though, which we'd also have to count as a benefit if we "count everything". It's just infeasible to come up with a concrete number of how much they "take away" from your earned money.

I have the same benefits in the US as in Denmark (more or less). In the US the government take 25% of my income in Denmark it was around 75%. Personally I don't think the extra 50% is worth it. The only ones better off in Denmark is the minimum wage earners.

I highly doubt it's that simple, sorry.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#445

Post by mrep »

mrep wrote: post #431
graeme wrote: post #280

I've been thinking about this. Let's say a company has 1000 employees at $50,000 per year. They were able to find enough workers at that rate. Now let's say they need 100 extra workers. They'd expect their labour costs to go up 10%. But, it turns out there isn't a supply of 100 workers at $50,000. To pull in extra workers, they'd need to offer $60,000. So far, so good. Extra labour costs are only $6,000,000, and only…

Yes, but I can't find the name for it right now. It is also the reason companies have people work overtime even though it costs +50% more because it is still cheaper than hiring more workers. Most introductory economics textbooks go over it.

If you are still reading this thread and have not read any economic textbooks, I HIGHLY recommend you start reading some economic textbooks. It is my favorite subject, I read dozens of textbooks on my own after I read my first introductory one, and I am a software engineer who majored in computer science.

I think it is highly useful in learning the "science" behind how businesses operate and I definitely think it is useful to learn regardless of what industry you work in since all businesses are subject to the "science" of business in capitalism.

I quote "science" because you cannot really test economic theory but it is as close as you can get and it brings a lot of insights into businesses when you learn it.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#446

Post by graeme »

mrep wrote: post #445
mrep wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but I can't find the name for it right now. It is also the reason companies have people work overtime even though it costs +50% more because it is still cheaper than hiring more workers. Most introductory economics textbooks go over it.

If you are still reading this thread and have not read any economic textbooks, I HIGHLY recommend you start reading some economic textbooks. It is my favorite subject, I read dozens of textbooks on my own after I read my first introductory one, and I am a software engineer who majored in computer science. I think it is highly useful in learning the "science" behind how businesses operate and I definitely think it is…

I actually majored in econ :) It was extremely useful in fact. But I don't recall hearing this wage theory, possibly because it deals with a semi-irrational aspect of wages. Econ historically wasn't good at irrational things. (Using irrational in the strictly literal, econ sense)

We did talk about wage stickiness, and this is related.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#447

Post by nradov »

mistermann wrote: post #436
nradov wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing purchase prices are largely an investment , not a cost. Including purchase prices in the CPI would be just as silly as including 401(k) contributions. If all goes well you're going to get that money back plus gains.

> Including purchase prices in the CPI would be just as silly as including 401(k) contributions. If 401k contributions were deemed by 60% of Americans to be a ~necessary part of their life. And whether or not you're going to get it back....you may, yes, but then again, you may not, in a very big way . For example, perhaps there's a gigantic bubble going on. It's a bit of a philosophical question really - is the gover…

Yes I would be philosophically opposed to the government publishing CPI numbers that include durable investments of any kind. CPI should only be consumption. People can always choose to rent instead of buy.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#448

Post by HumanDrivenDev »

Zeebrommer wrote: post #20
sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

Can you read this article? I'm in Europe and run into a message saying "Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism." with the LA time…

Just get a VPN like the Chinese posters use.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#449

Post by HumanDrivenDev »

sametmax wrote: post #276
quotidium wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, hey, wait, let's not forget the daily standup rituals of agile scrum behavior modification. Every day, justify your existence. Every day, beat that same dead horse. Every day, grab your coffee, sound off, and then listen to 20 other people bark at the empty air under their nose to show their devotion to a product that has the slimmest utility, and is coated in slippery, greasy dark patterns intended to screw the…

If the scrum has 20 people, something is really wrong.

Sometimes backs will join in the scrum in order to push their forwards over the line to score a try. It's rare but it does happen and is legal under IRB rules.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#450

Post by mistermann »

nradov wrote: post #447
mistermann wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Including purchase prices in the CPI would be just as silly as including 401(k) contributions. If 401k contributions were deemed by 60% of Americans to be a ~necessary part of their life. And whether or not you're going to get it back....you may, yes, but then again, you may not, in a very big way . For example, perhaps there's a gigantic bubble going on. It's a bit of a philosophical question really - is the gover…

Yes I would be philosophically opposed to the government publishing CPI numbers that include durable investments of any kind. CPI should only be consumption. People can always choose to rent instead of buy.

60% of people choose to buy for reasons that are their own business.

The question is whether two numbers should be printed, so taxpayers know what is actually happening in their economy. So, you are supporting deceit. Which is your choice, of course.

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