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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#441

Post by walshemj »

kristofferR wrote: post #362
jgraham wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is very unclear. Some studies suggest it isn't, but a recent metastudy reached very different conclusions [1]: > Bicycle helmet use was associated with reduced odds of head injury, serious head injury, facial injury and fatal head injury. The reduction was greater for serious or fatal head injury. Neck injury was rare and not associated with helmet use. [1] http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/09/06/…

Sorry, I should have been more clear. That helmets protect the head in a crash pretty obvious, and that metastudy seems to confirm it. What I had in mind was that helmet users tend to risk-compensate, taking more risks in traffic.

is there any real evidence to back this up - they used to say the same/similar things about seatbelts.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#442

Post by TulliusCicero »

pooper wrote: post #29
msandford wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclists are already second class citizens on the roads. People who ride bikes are upset about this and would prefer not to become third or fourth class. It's also very frustrating to have to assume everyone is so ignorant that they wouldn't mind accidentally killing you for the sake of saving a second or two. I completely agree that being aggressively paranoid is the way to stay alive. But agreeing that it is the sm…

> Cyclists are already second class citizens on the roads. People who ride bikes are upset about this and would prefer not to become third or fourth class. It's also very frustrating to have to assume everyone is so ignorant that they wouldn't mind accidentally killing you for the sake of saving a second or two. I'll bite. Any cyclist who rides on the sidewalk, runs a red light, or flaunts traffic convention in gener…

You sound more ignorant than rude. Yes, there are jerk cyclists who blatantly ignore the law. There are also jerk drivers who go over the speed limit, roll through stop signs, park in the bike lane, don't signal before changing lanes, enter the intersection after the yellow has turned to red, etc. This doesn't mean we should just treat car drivers in general with contempt.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#443

Post by travmatt »

Zanni wrote: post #51

The real answer is to get rid of street parking when you have a bike lane. They're incompatible. In fact, just get rid of street parking altogether. As a bicyclist, I've been doored. As a pedestrian, I find it difficult to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to cross the street in some locations. As a driver, I find it difficult to to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to enter the street AND I have…

You can also angle the parking spots. My town has parking spots that aren't parallel to the street, instead roughly 45 degrees.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#444

Post by hx87 »

ptaipale wrote: post #425
sambe wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen research in the past that suggested wearing helmets on average was neutral or negative (something to do with adding weight to the head?) but can never find it when this topic comes up. Do you have a reference for the Finnish research? Around the time I read about this research I also read that Switzerland and UK had been reluctant to regulate it in part due to conflicting research. Are you sure it's as clea…

Nothing in English that I could find now without spending more time. One thing about bicycle helmets is that they really need to have that shiny surface. Without it, i.e. with just a polystyrene surface, the friction of helmet vs. road surface will be so high as to cause a risk of neck injury when the head stops faster than the rest of the body, even if the helmet protects the head per se. Without the helmet, the hea…

I'm not sure what a smooth helmet surface will do the coefficient of friction between helmet and road if the road itself is still very rough. The benefits will probably hit diminishing returns long before the helmet is actually shiny.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#445

Post by TulliusCicero »

pooper wrote: post #39
ScottBurson wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riding on the sidewalk, for short distances and with a good reason, can be done safely and courteously, though it may require slowing to walking speed. How many car drivers never exceed the speed limit and always come to a complete stop at stop signs? Your absolutism should apply in both directions, no?

I wouldn't have to be rude if cyclists rode at walking speed safely and courteously. Some cyclists are incredibly self-entitled. Of course, I think we need stiff penalties for cars hitting cyclists. However, cyclists need to know they are second class citizens on the side walk. Yes, cars not coming to a full stop is a problem. But saying something else us wrong doesn't make me right. I'm glad you guys have a hug box…

> However, cyclists need to know they are second class citizens on the side walk.

As a cyclist I agree. However, at the same time, very few parts of the US have any safe infrastructure for bikes; it's completely understandable that your average joe cyclist wants to be in a place that's physically separated from cars, because he values his life.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#446

Post by TulliusCicero »

colmvp wrote: post #60
barney54 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll agree about cyclists on the sidewalk. They give all cyclists a bad name because it is needlessly dangerous.

Most cyclists wouldn't be riding on the sidewalk if they had proper infrastructure. If you look at both DC and NYC they reduced the incidence of cyclists on sidewalks by implementing dedicated bike lanes. When I drive in the 'burbs, it's hardly surprising to see cyclists who prefer to ride on sidewalks lacking pedestrians over riding on a two laned road with cars going 70km/hr. It's clearly a design problem, not a pr…

> Even as a driver I think any cyclist who cycles on a major road without a bike lane has some major guts.

Even many bike lanes are close to worthless. A strip of paint won't save you from an inattentive driver going 40+ mph.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#447

Post by adrianN »

_ph_ wrote: post #194

Interestingly, the bike lane shown in the first picture of the article rather marks the region that by German law cyclists are required to avoid. Cyclists are required to keep about a meter distance from parked cars to prevent dooming. That of course does not stop local authorities from creating bike lines exactly as shown in the article :(.

Do you have a citation for that law? It's the first time I hear about it.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#448

Post by TulliusCicero »

thrownblown wrote: post #72
honkhonkpants wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound not only rude but also ignorant and wrong. Welcome to the Internet! In California many bicyclists do in fact belong on the sidewalk, and this includes any child and any adult riding with a child.

People who think that its rude for cyclists to be on sidewalks have never been to Japan. Many people there, especially the elderly, ride bikes on the side walk. And I dare you to show me a more polite demographic than elderly Japanese folk!

The sidewalks those Japanese cyclists are on are usually wider than American sidewalks though (because the Japanese walk a whole lot more than Americans). When sidewalks are sufficiently wide, ped/bike conflicts are less of an issue, they basically become like a multi-use path.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#450

Post by cik2e »

mcv wrote: post #319
Scarblac wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also getting taught by amateurs, that just isn't a thing in the Netherlands. You learn to drive in a modified car (extra set of brakes, extra mirrors) with a qualified instructor next to you.

Wait, do people in the US not use professional driving instructors in modified instruction cars? Doesn't that cause a lot of accidents?

When I was taking mandatory driver's ed at 16 in the US (Boston area), the school's fleet was indeed equipped with foot brakes in the passenger seat. I'd wager a guess that all of the cars that you see with a "beginner driver" sign on the roof are like that. However, for the license test the only requirement was to have a hand brake between the front seats.

I have come to believe that we give out driver's licenses way too easily in the US. One easy, but sadly no longer practical, solution would be to require that the road test is taken on a manual. Driving stick from the beginning gave me so much more awareness and reflexes that have saved me from accidents more than once.

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