The real answer is to get rid of street parking when you have a bike lane. They're incompatible. In fact, just get rid of street parking altogether. As a bicyclist, I've been doored. As a pedestrian, I find it difficult to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to cross the street in some locations. As a driver, I find it difficult to to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to enter the street AND I have a massively increased cognitive load of paying attention, not just to the traffic on the street, but to everything that may be emerging from a car or from between cars.
The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
51–60 of 612 posts
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does the car being self-driving change anything? They don't open the doors for you.
Given the sensors required to be self-driving, a self-driving car should be able to detect a bicycle in the "dooring zone", and prevent the door from opening and/or alert the car occupant.
Yes, proximity sensors are capable of dramatically improving safety for pedestrians and cyclists, even in non-self-driving vehicles.
Many categories of collisions caused by carelessness and blind spots could be prevented by automatically applying breaks, preventing doors opening, etc.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
It would take decades for new drivers learning this technique to fully replace the current driving population. And I suspect most people wouldn't keep up the habit anyway.
I hate that argument; effectively it boils down to "it is hard, so why try anything at all?" Even if it took thirty years and even if it was only ten percent effective, what is the negatives to this plan? One more minor skill to driving? One more bullet in the driving code?
Because by the time this plan actually works, humans won't even be driving cars anymore. And as I said I would be very surprised if it actually did work, given how quickly people lose the habits they are taught in driver's ed (how many people keep 4 seconds of distance, wear their seatbelt, never speed, adjust their mirrors correctly, look both ways for trains, etc.)
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#54Getting doored is honestly terrifying (I don't say that lightly). I bike and longboard frequently, and I'll avoid bike lanes if they are alongside parked cars. And this is in Boulder, one of the most bike friendly cities in the US: http://www.bicycling.com/culture/advocacy/2014-top-50-bike-f...
I was doored once. I remember flying through the air and thinking, "oh, this isn't so bad." Then I landed and almost broke my hand.
Reminds me of the opening narration to the French movie La Haine. Approximately translated:
"This is the story of a man who fell from a 50-story building. The man, as he fell he kept repeating to reassure himself: 'So far so good, so far so good, so far so good.' But the important part is not the fall... it's the landing."
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#55It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand.
A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the tiny narrow ones of the gif in the article barely exist. 3) Bike lanes in cities usually are placed between the footpath and the parked cars, with most of the times a 50cm wide band left of the bike path allowing for car doors being opened without going over the bike paths, usually this is used for planting trees too 4) All politicians drive bike, the Dutch Prime Minister comes to work on his bike 5) There are local associations part of the national http://fietersbond.nl in every town and they passionately lobby every time they see an opportunity. 6) these volunteers are highly respected and their input is valued by the municipalities 7) one of the prime goals of Dutch national ministerie of Traffic is lowering the number of injured and death in traffic, good recording of cause by police is step one, good statistics then determine the ways roads are laid out. 8) On smaller roads without a separate bicycle path, as a bicyclist you're always on the watch if someone might step out of a car and try to keep a distance by bicycling towards the middle of the road which isn't an issue as this is low traffic street, major bike transit always has separated bike paths with distance to the parked cars. 9) during driving lessons, watching bicyclist is a prime part of the lessons and a good driver keeps an eye on the mirrors for back-coming bicyclist and will warn passengers on the back seats before they get out.
And there are probably more reasons that Dutch have few accidents being doored.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#56The real answer is to get rid of street parking when you have a bike lane. They're incompatible. In fact, just get rid of street parking altogether. As a bicyclist, I've been doored. As a pedestrian, I find it difficult to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to cross the street in some locations. As a driver, I find it difficult to to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to enter the street AND I have…
So where should the cars park then? Parking is a real issue in large cities and we won't solve it by removing even more spots. Other solutions (which are potentially more expensive) should be looked into before we consider removing street parking.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#57The problem is, dooring only affects the doorer after it happens. Most other traffic violations, like speeding, blowing stop signs, failure to yield, etc, can get you a ticket regardless of their outcome. Opening a car door into traffic, in Chicago at least, puts you at fault but there's no getting a ticket for not looking. There's only a ticket after your action causes an injury. Obviously, we can't have police tick…
I don't think a painted buffer is any good. A real solution would be physically separated bike lanes.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#58The real answer is to get rid of street parking when you have a bike lane. They're incompatible. In fact, just get rid of street parking altogether. As a bicyclist, I've been doored. As a pedestrian, I find it difficult to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to cross the street in some locations. As a driver, I find it difficult to to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to enter the street AND I have…
"As a bicyclist...As a pedestrian...As a driver"
Uh huh. 100% agree. Street parking is especially dangerous because it is not sufficient to look for the presence of a car; I must look for the presence of a car, and continue looking until I ascertain whether it's one of the dozens of parked vehicles.
But...street parking is also very convenient. Streets are very close to where people want to get to; no need to walk from a parking garage a half mile away. And practically speaking, it would be hard to imagine how to change existing cities.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#59The real answer is to get rid of street parking when you have a bike lane. They're incompatible. In fact, just get rid of street parking altogether. As a bicyclist, I've been doored. As a pedestrian, I find it difficult to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to cross the street in some locations. As a driver, I find it difficult to to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to enter the street AND I have…
So where should the cars park then? Parking is a real issue in large cities and we won't solve it by removing even more spots. Other solutions (which are potentially more expensive) should be looked into before we consider removing street parking.
In big cities these days most parking is off street anyway. A trend to remove on street parking in favor of better pedestrian safety and improved traffic flow can only be a positive.
Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Cyclists are already second class citizens on the roads. People who ride bikes are upset about this and would prefer not to become third or fourth class. It's also very frustrating to have to assume everyone is so ignorant that they wouldn't mind accidentally killing you for the sake of saving a second or two. I'll bite. Any cyclist who rides on the sidewalk, runs a red light, or flaunts traffic convention in gener…
I'll agree about cyclists on the sidewalk. They give all cyclists a bad name because it is needlessly dangerous.
Most cyclists wouldn't be riding on the sidewalk if they had proper infrastructure.
If you look at both DC and NYC they reduced the incidence of cyclists on sidewalks by implementing dedicated bike lanes.
When I drive in the 'burbs, it's hardly surprising to see cyclists who prefer to ride on sidewalks lacking pedestrians over riding on a two laned road with cars going 70km/hr.
It's clearly a design problem, not a problem of cyclists with a bad mentality or behavior. At least where I live, drivers who kill cyclists get extremely light sentences (if any), so is it any surprise that in certain situations, cyclists will opt for self preservation?
I say this as a person who predominantly drives. Even as a driver I think any cyclist who cycles on a major road without a bike lane has some major guts.