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Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

paolino.me

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Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#431

Post by bobsoap »

tomp wrote: post #405
rob74 wrote: post #165

> Which leaves the only real question. Why 25,000 at all? It is my company and my risk. If I want to start with nothing, that is my call, not a toll the state collects before it will let me try. And the cheap door has a price of its own: to some clients, “UG” reads as “not serious,” and they would rather deal with a GmbH. The structure built to let me in quietly marks me for using it. The 25,000 is there to make sure…

> The 25,000 is there to make sure you can cover some liability. Is this actually true? Can't the company just loan out the 25k immediately?

Yes. The 25k capital doesn't have to be cash, but can be in claims or asset value as well.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#432

Post by TomK32 »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #365
weinzierl wrote: post #126

Not to defend German bureaucracy but if you are serious and want results this is not how you do it. If you want a GmbH quickly there are specialized lawyers that maintain a pool of freshly founded GmbH's for you to buy. Everything is set up for you to start. If you don't like certain things like the company name, you can always change it later. That being said, I know plenty of people who founded their GmbH themselve…

> If you want a GmbH quickly there are specialized lawyers that maintain a pool of freshly founded GmbH's for you to buy. The fact that this absurd situation exists is a huge proof that the bureaucracy has gotten out of hand and that Germany is unfriendly to starting new businesses.

There's weirder things in existence like SPAC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special-purpose_acquisition_co...

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#433

Post by dgellow »

Aurornis wrote: post #80
Bombthecat wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wanted to go all out and maximise "company form". Same as optimizing your website for hundred of thousands of visitors even if you have only like one hundred visitors...

If the parent comment is correct and this form is necessary for personal financial protection, I wouldn’t consider that “all out”. That’s the bare minimum consideration for a viable company structure.

It’s not necessary. They did something completely overkill

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#434

Post by blacklion »

ExpertAdvisor01 wrote: post #277
egorfine wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really matter. If you do business in Germany you are evading taxes just by the fact of doing business. Everything and anything you make belongs to the government. It is an unfortunate loophole in the law that temporarily permits you to steal some of your profit back from the government where it rightfully belongs. Yeah, this is sarcasm, but not really. The practical reality is that it simply makes no sense…

If you don't like the laws/rules then just leave Germany . There is no justification for tax evasion .

It is how Russia become what it is: we all be said «If you don't like new law/regulation, go to your beloved USA, you are not a patriot and must be punished».

I'm sorry, but Germany is democratic country, and citizen of the country can choose by definition.

Leave your motherland because your government is crazy in one way or another? It is nonsense.

In reality, sometimes people need to do it (because it becomes too dangerous to stay), but it should not be this way. In any country.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#435

Post by 9dev »

WarmWash wrote: post #409
9dev wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that so? In Germany for example, you have a legal right to return anything you purchased via a remote means of communication - so e.g., the internet, or a phone call - free of charge, within two weeks, and it must be simple to do so; if a vendor tries to obfuscate how to cancel a purchase contract, you can simply write them an email.

One of the major reasons US consumers shop with megacorp over small business is because of the no hassle returns.

Exactly my point. In Germany I can order from the smallest of webshops without even reading their return policy, because I am guaranteed favourable terms by law.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#436

Post by quentindanjou »

fakedang wrote: post #196

Honestly why go through all these hoops? Is the Wyoming LLC + Wise account route shut off for most Europeans?

Yes. Unless you have hundreds of thousands of dollars that you can invest in the company that has not even been created, you would not be able to get a visa and your company would not be able to exist.

Unless you are a startup with large investors, that route is closed.

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#437

Post by dgellow »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #368
Archelaos wrote: post #195

The authors claim that he spent "9,600 euros to start a company" is misleading. Since he wants to reduce his liabiliy and therefore the risk of his customers as much as possible, he opted for a complex solution that involved founding two joined companies. In addition, he counted 2,000 € of shared capital as an expense, which it isn't. He did not opt for a "cheap" UG which requires no up-front capital, because of its…

Do you understand why the notary fees are €1,575.24? That's astonishingly high for (I presume) a couple hours of work at most.

The notary system is pure scam and should be abolished. They literally just read your documents, stamp, sign. It’s expansive, outdated and doesn’t bring any value

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#439

Post by dgellow »

fakedang wrote: post #249
phlo wrote: post #198

You have to savour the lack of self-awareness in this one. > Founder chooses the most complex legal structure that's readily-available... and is surprised that this complexity comes with laywer and notary fees. > Founder decides to incorporate a company with the name of a popular brand of kitchen rolls... and is surprised that it's too generic. > After "weeks of correspondence" (and, I suppose, extensive research), f…

Is the GmbH the most complex legal structure? What about the AG?

No it’s not the most complicated form. They didn’t go for a standard GmbH. A simple GmbH using a template protocol is simpler and cheaper

Re: Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

#440

Post by rihards__ »

"My German clients I could bill today. But a domestic invoice now would have to be reissued the moment the VAT ID arrives"

Not a good idea... Companies will have to re-enter their VAT reports in previous taxation periods. It will trigger even more hassle an pushback form payers...

While EU is big and welcoming family, nobody wants to deal with non-resident bank accounts and tax liabilities :)

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