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Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

ecopv-eu.com

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Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#431

Post by wasmitnetzen »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #268
ratiolat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP68, replaceable battery, phone jack, 5G: https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover6_pro-11600.php

I feel like the fact that the phone-with-removal-battery option already exists and is not popular in the market should be a signal to EU politicians about how much the public actually values this capability.

I don't think the mobile phone market produces variety, somehow its market forces make it strive for uniformity. All phones are basically of the same from factor (with the two foldable ones being niches), roughly the same size, same battery, same connectors, one of two OS, etc.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#432

Post by rootusrootus »

mort96 wrote: post #236
Aurornis wrote: post #24

As others have mentioned this is for phones with batteries that can’t survive a reasonable number of cycles. That’s a reasonable exemption, in my opinion. I don’t want to pay the extra penalties of reduced structural rigidity and water tightness for a battery that I don’t need to replace for 3-4 years anyway. I do wish one manufacturer would make a flagship phone with replaceable battery so all of the uncompromising…

Should we not expect phones to last more than 3-4 years? We aren't in the exponential performance growth and requirements part of the smartphone world anymore, a 5-7 year old phone can be a perfectly functional device. Isn't it unfortunate that a perfectly good phone gets turned to e-waste years before it has to, just because a consumable part of it happens to be non-replaceable?

> Isn't it unfortunate that a perfectly good phone gets turned to e-waste years before it has to

This does not happen. There is a thriving market for used phones, many of which have had the battery replaced.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#433

Post by eqvinox »

wmf wrote: post #7

There's an exception for batteries that "retain at least 80% of its original capacity after 1,000 charge cycles." Coincidentally, iPhones and probably other flagships already qualify for this exception.

JFTR: achieving that capacity retention is a question of charge settings. Pretty much any Lithium ion battery can achieve it if you don't charge it to the absolute maximum possible each time.

It's quite simple. While you can charge a "good old" Lithium ion battery to 4.2V, you already start getting slow degradation at that point. Charging it to 4.1V or 4.05V massively reduces that. But at the same time, those 100 or 150mV are a notable amount of charge, up to 20%. So… yeah. It's a tradeoff.

For reference: https://nenpower.com/blog/how-does-charging-voltage-impact-t...

https://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussion... page 15

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#434

Post by FeepingCreature »

motbus3 wrote: post #423
jorams wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The batteries regulation[1] doesn't contain such an exemption. The legal argument that iPhones may be exempt goes like this: - The batteries regulation is a general regulation and article 11 specifically says the following: > This paragraph shall be without prejudice to any specific provisions ensuring a higher level of protection of the environment and human health relating to the removability and replaceability of…

I can strongly state that it is 100% possible to do ip67 with removable batteries in the sense people general mean. That said, I am afraid how one can play with the definition of removable. Everything is removable given enough force.

EU courts generally frown on such shenanigans.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#435

Post by Filligree »

munk-a wrote: post #324
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect that one of the main reasons that people prefer non-removable battery phones are the engineering tradeoffs inherent in making a phone with a removable battery. They will have strictly less choice on this axis when they no longer have the option to buy a non-removal battery phone.

I think you are vastly overvaluing how much consumers actually value phone thinness. The majority of consumers use phone cases (most modern phones have a camera popup specifically to be better compatible with a case to this end) so I think what customers value the most is lighter weight - not smaller form factor. A replaceable battery does come with a slight compromise to weight but stopping the endless chase of thin…

I would prefer a phone that was robust enough to not need a cover, because covers add a great deal of size and weight.

In the absence of such phones, I compromise on adding a cover.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#436

Post by rootusrootus »

bobro wrote: post #410
yason wrote: post #288

In principle, this is the kind of right sentiment but for the wrong things. I can't remember a phone that died because of the battery since the era of Ni-Cd cells in early cell phones. I don't think I've never discarded a phone with a li-ion battery because of the battery. It's always physical breakage or getting too slow to be usable, because of age. Sure, I don't spend a cycle per day. Not even every other day. Tha…

I’ve definitely replaced iphones because the battery wasn’t holding a charge. My understanding is that this is a pretty common issue, no?

That is your choice, however. Plenty of people choose to pay for a new battery rather than drop hundreds of dollars on a new phone. Apple still offers battery service for $69 for the iPhone 6, a phone released 12 years ago. You could have a new battery put in it today and then go a few more years. Nobody is forcing you to buy a whole new phone.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#437

Post by sib »

alt227 wrote: post #337
SigmundA wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now go look up why they stopped riveting ships in the 40's and went to welding, there are no modern riveted ships. Even with the rivets they were forged not pressed, nothing like a screw. Cheap aluminum boats are still riveted, welding preferred for obvious reasons. I have an old riveted aluminum John boat and is leaks through the rivets and seams...

> there are no modern riveted ships > Cheap aluminum boats are still riveted I think you may need to think out your entire post before typing such contradictions. Riveted hulls worked for hundreds of years and well maintained they can last forever. Just bacause welding makes it cheaper to maintain in the long run does not detract from the fact that riveted hulls are very performant, which is why they were used everyw…

>> I think you may need to think out your entire post before typing such contradictions.

Ships != Boats

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#438

Post by throwaway2037 »

Can I play devil's advocate for a moment? Imagine that Apple decides to protest this new rule. They say: We will stop stelling iPhones in the EU. However, you can buy from non-EU countries (US, Canada, AUS/NZ, UK, etc.), and we will ship to you, or you can use a third party shipper. I know, I know, HN crowd loves to play legal games like this ("this one weird trick...") -- they rarely work in the Real World.

Real legal question: What prevents this "legal hack"?

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#439

Post by joe_mamba »

nickpp wrote: post #120
joe_mamba wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment is not meant to give you something to buy, it's just proof that it can technically be done, they just don't want to do it for modern flagships.

> it can technically be done At what cost though?! And no, I am not talking about money. Any device (and any product really) is a set of tradeoffs. I like it when different producers select a different subset of priorities for their offer. Competition at work. One of the reasons we witnessed such an awesome evolution in the smartphone market. I hate it when a bureaucrat dictates a set of demands with absolutely zero…

>I hate it when a bureaucrat dictates a set of demands with absolutely zero regard to the cost or the tradeoffs involved in product decisions and market competition.

It's because of those "bureaucrats", that car manufacturers were forced to implement catalytic converters and ECUs for emissions controls, and why the air in your city isn't a smog cloud like in the 70s.

I hate it when people assume the environmental and societal problems caused the unregulated free market, are gonna be fixed by the same unregulated free market which only optimizes for profit.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#440

Post by kgwxd »

A better law would be standardized batteries only. Being hard/impossible to replace is only part of the problem. When third-party "compatible" batteries are the only option available 3 years after release, this will just make it easier for people to turn their phones into bombs.

It be nice if this was true of laptops as well, along with a requirement that they can run plugged in, with no battery installed, so people don't have to keep their puffy proprietary battery even though it can't hold a charge any more.

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