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DeepSeek v4

api-docs.deepseek.com

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Re: DeepSeek v4

#431

Post by willsmith72 »

Ladioss wrote: post #376
sigmoid10 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not sure how I feel about China of all places to control the only alternative AI stack, but I guess it's better than leaving everything to the US alone. If China ever feels emboldened enough to go for Taiwan and the US descends into complete chaos, the rest of the world running on AI will be at the mercy of authoritarian regimes. At the very least you can be sure noone is in this for the good of the people anym…

I always find it an illuminating experience about the power of mass propaganda every time I see an American believe they somewhat have the moral high ground over China, despite starting a new war somewhere around the globe either for petrol or on behalf of Israel every six months.

[flagged]

Re: DeepSeek v4

#432

Post by dannyw »

Are there better providers for inferencing this right now? I know it's launch day, but openrouter showing 30tps isn't looking great.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#434

Post by OCASMv2 »

Ladioss wrote: post #376
sigmoid10 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not sure how I feel about China of all places to control the only alternative AI stack, but I guess it's better than leaving everything to the US alone. If China ever feels emboldened enough to go for Taiwan and the US descends into complete chaos, the rest of the world running on AI will be at the mercy of authoritarian regimes. At the very least you can be sure noone is in this for the good of the people anym…

I always find it an illuminating experience about the power of mass propaganda every time I see an American believe they somewhat have the moral high ground over China, despite starting a new war somewhere around the globe either for petrol or on behalf of Israel every six months.

The Uyghur say hi.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#435

Post by TomGarden »

koe123 wrote: post #355
jurgenburgen wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if we’re ahead of the curve but that tired feeling has started turning into hate here in the EU. I guess being threatened with invasion does that to you. The next decade is going to look very different with America Alone.

I grew up in the states when I was younger, always feeling some closeness to Americans even after I moved back to Europe. With all that goes on it has changed. Recently I sat on a plane near some Americans discussing their holidays here, and I noticed I felt contempt. Sitting their with insane privilege as their government torches the world. Individuals remain individuals, and one really ought not to be prejudice. Ho…

I a European who spent the last decade in America and I'm not sure I'd call Americans privileged compared to Europe. With money being the one means you have to be treated well in society, comparing it to Europe, America feels like the hunger games. Want healthcare (ie surviving)? Healthy food? To own your house? Welcome to the games

Re: DeepSeek v4

#436

Post by nl »

m00x wrote: post #204
revolvingthrow wrote: post #160

> pricing "Pro" $3.48 / 1M output tokens vs $4.40 I’d like somebody to explain to me how the endless comments of "bleeding edge labs are subsidizing the inference at an insane rate" make sense in light of a humongous model like v4 pro being $4 per 1M. I’d bet even the subscriptions are profitable, much less the API prices. edit: $1.74/M input $3.48/M output on OpenRouter

They are profitable to opex costs, but not capex costs with the current depreciation schedules, though those are now edging higher than expected.

Amazingly, the current depreciation overestimates the retained value of GPUs.

In 2023, the depreciation schedule for H100s was 2 years, but they are still oversubscribed and generating signficant income.

Coreweve has upped their depreciation for GPUs to 6 years(!) now, which seems more realistic.

https://www.silicondata.com/blog/h100-rental-price-over-time

Re: DeepSeek v4

#437

Post by azuanrb »

amunozo wrote: post #275

For those who rely on open source models but don't want to stop using frontier models, how do you manage it? Do you pay any of the Chinese subscription plans? Do you pay the API directly? After GPT 5.5 release, however good it is, I am a bit tired of this price hiking and reduced quota every week. I am now unemployed and cannot afford more expensive plans for the moment.

I have $20 ChatGPT subscription. Stopped Anthropic $20 subscription since the limit ran out too fast. That's my frontier model(s).

For OSS model, I have z.ai yearly subscription during the promo. But it's a lot more expensive now. The model is good imo, and just need to find the right providers. There are a lot of alternatives now. Like I saw some good reviews regarding ollama cloud.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#438

Post by OCASMv2 »

amunozo wrote: post #430
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a different Brit I do not accept such moral relativism. China’s governments actions are on a completely different level - for example: “”” Since 2014, the government of the People's Republic of China has committed a series of ongoing human rights abuses against Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslim minorities in Xinjiang which has often been characterized as persecution or as genocide. “”” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Why do we ignore all the human right abuses the US perform abroad? Iraq, Afghanistan, now Iran, Gaza and Lebanon through Israel, support to Saudi Arabia (which would not exist without the US), El Salvador... And inside it's also horrible with its treatment to immigrant. That should be at least comparable (if not worse) than what China is doing.

Yes, El Salvador is so evil for imprisoning dangerous criminals and protecting innocent lives.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#439

Post by Lapel2742 »

Danox wrote: post #426
sigmoid10 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not sure how I feel about China of all places to control the only alternative AI stack, but I guess it's better than leaving everything to the US alone. If China ever feels emboldened enough to go for Taiwan and the US descends into complete chaos, the rest of the world running on AI will be at the mercy of authoritarian regimes. At the very least you can be sure noone is in this for the good of the people anym…

Isn’t Mistral close in the ballpark?

AFAIK: Current Mistral models are not competitive with SOTA-models that come out of the USA or China. They are "good enough" for enterprise usage when you don't need SOTA performance.

Their main selling point is: They are neither US-American nor Chinese. That's a real moat in today's world. I think at the moment they feel quite comfortable.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#440

Post by rohanm93 »

swiftcoder wrote: post #356
rohanm93 wrote: post #153

This is shockingly cheap for a near frontier model. This is insane. For context, for an agent we're working on, we're using 5-mini, which is $2/1m tokens. This is $0.30/1m tokens. And it's Opus 4.6 level - this can't be real. I am uncomfortable about sending user data which may contain PII to their servers in China so I won't be using this as appealing as it sounds. I need this to come to a US-hosted environment at a…

> For context, for an agent we're working on, we're using 5-mini, which is $2/1m tokens. This is $0.30/1m tokens. And it's Opus 4.6 level - this can't be real. It's doesn't seem all that out there compared to the other Chinese model price/performance? Kimi2.6 is cheaper even than this, and is pretty close in performance

Kimi is indeed somewhat cheap for frontier-level intelligence, but still is $4-5 per mm tokens. Deep Seek is at least an order of magnitude cheaper.
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