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Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

ilga.gov

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Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#431

Post by alephnerd »

prophesi wrote: post #412
alephnerd wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have been worried about that on HN for years, but I still see the same culture... And that's the crux of the issue - the industry and people have changed, but HN hasn't changed discourse wise and is growing increasingly disconnected demographically speaking. A large portion of HNers are men in their late 30s to 50s, and no longer located in the Bay Area or NYC. No one's who matters is having these kinds of c…

And what I'm saying is that the people who actually matter are posting here. Because it's a trusted social platform. We want to talk to fellow experts of varied expertise, and I truly appreciate the discussions I have here. Feel free to have discussions of similar value on platforms with smaller, focused communities; I do the same for the tech I know. I do agree bots/astroturfing are prevalent here. But I've had http…

> And what I'm saying is that the people who actually matter are posting here. Because it's a trusted social platform

I am one of the those people who matter and work with other people who do as well yet I'm the only one in my peer group of VCs, CISOs, CPOs, CTOs, CEOs, Founders, SWEs, PMs, etc who still uses HN today.

Hell, Nvidia GTC has been going on for 3 days now and not a single post about it has come up. That shows how out of the loop HN has become.

> Did "hacker news" lose its stallman flavor in favor of venture capital investors

To me, it's become even more Stallman-esque and less relevant to founders, operators, or investors. And this is a growing sentiment amongst newer YCombinator founders as well.

Conversations that are actually relevant to founders and VCs don't happen on HN anymore. And an increasing number of HNers use VC and PE interchangeably - this is such a basic mistake that betrays how out of the loop and lack of context HNers have now.

> was curious on Luma. Is it basically meetup/radius/partiful/apple invites but for crypto bros

It's the new meetup. If you are seeing crypto bros on there then you are not located in a major tech hub.

Opening up Luma this morning I see invites to a fireside chat with Fei-Fei Li (ImageNet), a spring showcase by a VC fund that has invested in dozens of YC startups, a couple raves, a Quantum Computing breakfast at Stanford sponsored by the Danish and Norwegian Consulates, and an event by the Japanese Consulate on the intersection of manga, AI, and creativity. These events and others are where people who matter and can impact change are hanging out and chatting with each other.

> I hope this doesn't become what reddit is now.

At least as an American in tech, HN already has become as low signal-to-noise as Reddit.

Based on the time you posted along with your pattern of speech, I'm guessing you live in Central or maybe Western Europe. You have a very "DACH" coded speech pattern.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#432

Post by tenacious_tuna »

mminer237 wrote: post #330
MarsIronPI wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because "Operating System Provider" is either too vague, or too imposing on free operating system developers.

Having a radio option for <13, 13–15, 16–17, and 18+ on account creation and a syscall to query that is not a huge imposition for OS.

what's account creation on an esp32 running micropython? or an arduino? what happens when the law is expanded to require biometric enforcement of what the user reports?

Also, I don't want my OS to report my age range to every website I visit anyway.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#433

Post by conor- »

glitchc wrote: post #404
ottah wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several issues, one OS developers will likely use this to fully identify all users. Apple, Google and Microsoft would rather have legal identities tied to all activity, and this is an easy pretext. Second, there's no certainty about how courts might interpret compliance. If the intent of the law is to positively identify minors, a user editable field may not be interpreted as sufficient to comply. We don't know what…

And we will finally have the year of the Linux desktop!

Just as long as you're using a distro that isn't using systemd[0], which is kind of an uphill battle these days

[0]https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/40954

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#434

Post by exabrial »

gruez wrote: post #43
anonym29 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blue states: paternalism over your property, liberty for your body Red states: paternalism over your body, liberty for your property

except for during covid, where there was a weird reversal.

The funny thing is the more this comment is downvoted, the more accurate you know it is.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#436

Post by pjmlp »

kajaktum wrote: post #406
mgfist wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be externalized to a degree. Facebook shouldn't be the ones verifying age, but there should be a trusted 3rd party service that does that, which just tells facebook "yes this user is old enough to use your service" or "no they're not old enough". It abso-fucking-lutely should not be at the OS level though, for so many reasons. Even the implementation alone would be a nightmare. Do I need to input my ID to u…

If social media, alcohol, drugs, gambling, phones are so, so, so bad for children. Just ban them from children. We were completely fine 30 years ago without any phone. They will survive. They will probably thrive because now they have to learn how to hack the system. Instead, we just give them everything they need and all the thinking they do is scrolling.

On the 50's, it is incredible the proctective bubble that gets pushed around in some countries nowadays, externalizing all responsabilities.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#437

Post by hypeatei »

edgyquant wrote: post #421
hypeatei wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know of any surveillance state act that used "protect women" as their top line, but maybe I missed it. > because you fail to understand people really are worried about their children No, I completely understand but that doesn't give anyone the right to start mandating that we give up our privacy in pursuit of that. That's sorta the joke with "save the children", it's meant to tug at your emotions and make you…

No it isn’t “meant” to do anything but reflect a desire to protect children. You’re projecting.

Okay, so not every single person pushing surveillance is a bad faith actor and there are some parents in there who truly want the best for children. How does that change the substance of my point about overreach?

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#438

Post by wtallis »

jeffbee wrote: post #112
jacobgkau wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the laws in CA, CO, and now IL are essentially just mandating generally available OS's implement a standardized, local parental control system. Detractors will say parents should just install existing parental control software, even though it's existed in its current form for decades and is obviously not effective. And they'll say it should be the parents' responsibility to enforce what their kids are doing wit…

The argument about the California bill is not that it is a slippery slope, but that it was drafted by people with zero domain knowledge. It applies equally to toaster ovens as well as iPhones.

It only applies to toaster ovens that can connect to the Internet to download third-party apps.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#439

Post by dadysgirl1 »

pianoben wrote: post #88
mgfist wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be externalized to a degree. Facebook shouldn't be the ones verifying age, but there should be a trusted 3rd party service that does that, which just tells facebook "yes this user is old enough to use your service" or "no they're not old enough". It abso-fucking-lutely should not be at the OS level though, for so many reasons. Even the implementation alone would be a nightmare. Do I need to input my ID to u…

Or, and hear me out, _maybe our computers shouldn't spy on us in the first place_?

Agreed! We shouldn't be because wouldn't we go to jail for shit like that if it were you or I?

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#440

Post by dogleash »

jacobgkau wrote: post #18
mikestorrent wrote: post #3

I don't like this whole thing, but compared to what I was fearing would happen, this idea is nowhere near as bad. What I expected was that we'd end up with the OS vendors actually being mandated to really do age verification, and then submitting that using Web Credentials and Secure Attestation so that the far end could trust the whole thing, locking open-source OS's out of the mix and creating more of a walled garde…

Yeah, the laws in CA, CO, and now IL are essentially just mandating generally available OS's implement a standardized, local parental control system. Detractors will say parents should just install existing parental control software, even though it's existed in its current form for decades and is obviously not effective. And they'll say it should be the parents' responsibility to enforce what their kids are doing wit…

> The arguments I've heard against it are almost all slippery-slope (e.g. "they're gonna do this first, and then add ID requirements next year, because that's what I fear will happen.")

And the arguments for it don't promise to fight tooth and nail not to make sure it's not slippery. If the slope does turn out to be slippery, today's proponents will be tomorrow's Hindsight Harrys (e.g. "the cat's already out of the bag, if you cared so much you should have fought this back when we all saw it coming").

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