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Our investigation into the suspicious pressure on Archive.today

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Re: Our investigation into the suspicious pressure on Archive.today

#431

Post by evilDagmar »

e2le wrote: post #242
rgj wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But apparently there was actual CSAM there, since the article mentioned that archive.is removed it within a few hours. So the claim was real. Why did they make up such a story around it?

>They replied within a few hours. The response was straightforward: the illegal content would be removed (and we verified that it was), and they had never received any previous notifications about those URLs. They never notified archive.today of the illegal material, instead they chose to demand blocking actions of archive.today from a DNS provider. I would be interested to know whether any other DNS service provider…

It's not inconceivable to suggest that the people claiming that the CSAM hadn't been removed knew it was still there not only because they'd never actually sent the request for removal, but because they themselves put up the original site and requested the CSAM be indexed in the first place.

Re: Our investigation into the suspicious pressure on Archive.today

#432

Post by franga2000 »

xzjis wrote: post #416
axiolite wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Knowingly downloading CSAM is very likely illegal. Put CSAM in a banner ad, and arrest everyone who was served that ad? Post a CSAM photo behind plexiglass on a wall in a public space, and arrest everyone who walks by and glanced at it? Just how stupid do you think lawmakers, judges, prosecutors, and police are? People get arrested for paying for, or sharing CSAM, not just stumbling on a website that might have som…

There's another reason: the criminal justice system is structured in such a way that it requires material evidence to prove someone is guilty and punish them. It would be unacceptable to send an innocent person to prison, and you can't prove that someone has merely viewed content.

We need a rule that people who haven't had to deal with the police and courts need to shut up about how police and courts work.

Even if nobody involved commits a crime and just does their job resonably well, getting your apartment raided, all your neighbours seeing that, your coworkers hearing about it, having to pay for a lawyer, losing all your electronic devices for months if not years and having to buy new ones, not being ablo to make proper plans because you never know when they might throw another court date at you...

But more often than not, they don't do their job well. They're sloppy, indifferent, they don't really understand computers or technology... You might get convicted just because a judge doesn't understand what downloading actually means.

And then you also get the ass-covering. They spent all this time and effort, but now it looks like you're innocent. Their bosses would be pissed, maybe you could even sue them. So they do their best to make even the smallest and dumbest charges stick. They look for other potentian crimes. They threaten you until you take a plea deal. They dissect and twist everything you said. Just so they don't have to admit they made a

"Innocent until proven guilty" might be true in the most technical sense. But being innocent doesn't help when your entire life is thrown upside down, everyone you know thinks you're a criminal, you're spending thousands on legal costs...

Re: Our investigation into the suspicious pressure on Archive.today

#433

Post by trollbridge »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #370
robocat wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

POSIWID - not really: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/come-on-obviously-the-purpo...

Actually I think that articles very opening premis is exactly as obviously false as they say the original articles premis is. In other words for example they have not shown that the purpose of a cancer hospital is not in fact to cure 2/3 of cancers. They say it's obviously absurd but that's just a bald assertion with no backing meat. It can absolutely be argued that the hospital is doing exactly what it's intended to…

Having lived in the U.S. for a while, it's apparent the purpose of a hospital is "provide big salaries to top administrators and executives whilst providing enough health care that they can get away with it".

Re: Our investigation into the suspicious pressure on Archive.today

#434

Post by cyberdick »

constantcrying wrote: post #97
supriyo-biswas wrote: post #6

Its interesting that being unable to find a legal route to dig up dirt on archive.is, they're going the route of CSAM allegations. I first heard of this technique on a discussion on Lowendtalk from a hoster discussing how pressure campaigns were orchestrated. The host used to host VMs for a customer that was not well liked but otherwise within the bounds of free speech in the US (I guess something on the order of KF/…

The owner of the KiwiFarms goes into detail how the attack against his site works and where the residential IPs are from: "The bot spammer - Started his attack by simply DDoS attacking the forum. - Uses thousands of real email addresses from real providers like gmail, outlook, and hotmail. - Uses tens of thousands of VPN IPs. - He also uses tens of thousands of IPs from "Residential Private Networks", which are "free…

this sort of stuff happened on reddit too but by a different moderator and his goons https://www.markdownpaste.com/document/bardfinn-method

Re: Our investigation into the suspicious pressure on Archive.today

#435

Post by squigz »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #423
squigz wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyone else is stupid. I'm not though. I should be part of the elite" The apathy and disdain people like you display for your fellow citizens is doing more harm to freedoms all over the world than most other efforts.

Oh please. I've tried to debate politics with people so childishly stupid they thought just giving everyone a million dollars would make everyone rich and solve the world's problems. They thought the government just didn't want to give them the money, like it was a conspiracy to keep them down. I'm tired of it, and I'm tired of people like that having a say in the future of nations. I'm no super genius but I'm done b…

Too bad intelligence isn't the prerequisite to being an elite, so you'll be turned into Soylent Green just like the rest of us.

Anyway I'd take those people over someone as elitist and arrogant as you any day.

Re: Our investigation into the suspicious pressure on Archive.today

#436

Post by oblio »

casefields wrote: post #356
oblio wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French law is based on an entirely different legal system compared to US (and Anglosphere law): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_legal_systems... It might not be possible to do something like that in France (though I assume there are other mechanisms available in that case).

Louisiana has a bunch of French law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Louisiana

And your point of trivia is not applicable here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals... -> Louisiana isn't in the list for the court that handled that trial.

Re: Our investigation into the suspicious pressure on Archive.today

#437

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

franga2000 wrote: post #430
axiolite wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Knowingly downloading CSAM is very likely illegal. Put CSAM in a banner ad, and arrest everyone who was served that ad? Post a CSAM photo behind plexiglass on a wall in a public space, and arrest everyone who walks by and glanced at it? Just how stupid do you think lawmakers, judges, prosecutors, and police are? People get arrested for paying for, or sharing CSAM, not just stumbling on a website that might have som…

> Just how stupid do you think lawmakers, judges, prosecutors, and police are? Very! Unimaginably so! A friend of mine from Germany received a GIF that contained ONE FRAME of CSAM from someone in a group chat, Whatsapp auto-downloaded it into the gallery, something auto reported it and a month later, cops showed up to take away all his electronic devices. This is apparently a thing people do there, like americans SWA…

> because the report was automated, there wasn't even anyone to sue for a false report

Is there a reason the legal entity which deployed the software can't be named? Seems like the next logical step, anyway.

Re: Our investigation into the suspicious pressure on Archive.today

#438

Post by aftbit »

franga2000 wrote: post #430
axiolite wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Knowingly downloading CSAM is very likely illegal. Put CSAM in a banner ad, and arrest everyone who was served that ad? Post a CSAM photo behind plexiglass on a wall in a public space, and arrest everyone who walks by and glanced at it? Just how stupid do you think lawmakers, judges, prosecutors, and police are? People get arrested for paying for, or sharing CSAM, not just stumbling on a website that might have som…

> Just how stupid do you think lawmakers, judges, prosecutors, and police are? Very! Unimaginably so! A friend of mine from Germany received a GIF that contained ONE FRAME of CSAM from someone in a group chat, Whatsapp auto-downloaded it into the gallery, something auto reported it and a month later, cops showed up to take away all his electronic devices. This is apparently a thing people do there, like americans SWA…

This is one good reason we should not tolerate our devices auto-snitching on us to the police. Any tool can be weaponized. The legal system has a presumption of innocence, but it grinds painfully slowly, and the mere investigation can be extremely disruptive, even assuming they don't find anything further to pursue once they turn the eye of Sauron upon you.

Re: Our investigation into the suspicious pressure on Archive.today

#439

Post by throaway1975 »

immibis wrote: post #183
throaway1975 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they specifically called out the website set up for the mass emailing campaign as the (a) reason why they couldn't ignore the outrage. Never mentioned anything about social media, but the idea that parliamentary officials are immune to people power is just naive. They do not exist in a vacuum. https://www.politico.eu/article/one-man-spam-campaign-ravage... Id also seriously question your assertion that it was in…

Interesting. I know in the USA each congressperson has a small team of people to filter emails, including deleting repetitive ones. I thought this was universal. > Joachim's mass email campaign is unconventional as a lobbying tool, differing from the more wonky approach usually taken in Brussels. But the website's impact has been undeniable. Ah, so this is completely new to them - for some reason. Possibly due to con…

Lol. They won't. A small team to delete repetitive emails has nothing to do with getting hundreds of emails a day from different people in your constituency. Also "weak free speech" is pretty much just a US-centred meme.

Re: Our investigation into the suspicious pressure on Archive.today

#440

Post by throaway1975 »

wartywhoa23 wrote: post #188
throaway1975 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 90s were a utopian time. I am happy I got to see them, and the early internet. But as a grown-up millennial, I look at my less-connected friends, an I can't help but think id have been better off that way.

But do you think it's something to be dictated to people? I lived more years than anyone in my circle without a smartphone, without any messengers or social networks, and that was solely my own decision, because I was fed up with people glued to their screens. I joined the bandwagon in order to be able to pay my bills, because freelance became unviable, and interaction with coworkers was via Telegram and our github o…

What? The issue with the internet is that it's now designed to be an addictive rectangle in your pocket.
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