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Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year

mahadk.com

431–440 of 1001 posts

Re: Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year

#431

Thousands of teen coders now hate Salesforce in advance . This is very shortsighted.

I believe thousands more adults are now hating it too, also reconsidering any current and potential dealings with them seeing their way of conduct. If not for the sake of righteousness, but for the sake of self interest (not to be extorted in the future by an organization prone to exploitation and extortion).

Re: Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year

#432

I think what they did is slimy as hell, but it's hard to side with anyone using Discord, Slack, et al for doing community based support and building a knowledge base. This was not an issue in the era of forums, that supposedly were replaced with SaaS closed communities because of spam... Fyi, Campfire is open source now: https://github.com/basecamp/once-campfire

You're finding it "hard to side" with a literal nonprofit charity getting bullied ruthlessly because something something SaaS not self-managed? My God, dude.

Re: Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year

#433

Thousands of teen coders now hate Salesforce in advance . This is very shortsighted.

You would think that making your users hate you is shortsighted, yes. But does it really matter?

I urge every user of Hacker News to read Peter Thiel's book, Zero to One. It's the definitive statement on software capitalism.

The goal, which Thiel embraces unabashedly, is to use technology to create new and unique monopolies, and once you've created them, extract as much rent as possible from the users. Obviously the users hate that part once it kicks in.

Thiel really seems to believe this is a good thing and there's a sense in which he's right: the tech industry has created more gadgets and created (or consumed?) a level of economic activity on par with industrialization itself. We have been introduced to all manner of innovations and conveniences, and the winners at this game have won bigger than anybody else.

But it is undoubtedly anti-consumer and anti-user. They give you something good, you get hooked, and then they enshittify it once you can't get out, and it's all part of the plan. Again, and again, and again, for more than 40 years now.

That's why once you're done with Thiel, you should read the GNU Manifesto. Richard Stallman identified the basic dynamics here as far back as the 1980s, and started his movement from the perspective of a user of computer systems who didn't want everything to be trapped and enshittified once again. By encouraging programmers to adopt the GNU license he aimed to prevent the rent seeking stage of this process.

Both camps succeeded partially. Thiel's camp succeeded more, especially economically. Which camp you join is up to you when you write a line of code or you use a piece of software. I personally think the world is complicated and there are elements of value in both. Regardless these are the two written works which together will give you the full context about the software industry, how it works, how it got this way, and even why modern life is the way it is.

And then you will see how it is by design for Salesforce to fuck nonprofits because it works. It was in the plan from day one. They knew. They will do it again.

Re: Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year

#435
post #57

I was ready to be unsympathetic - too bad for the company - but then I read TFA and it's a rug pull on a nonprofit teaching coding to kids.... https://hackclub.com/ (They do help clubs sell things, taking "7% of income", so they do have a revenue stream, but the money that Slack wants would pay a veritable army of student interns.)

Financials are here, not too surprising if sales at Slack saw this they'd charge more https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/812...

The revenue is from contributions

Re: Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year

#436
post #352

That's a 40x increase all at once with a very short grace period, it's bait-and-switch territory. If only 2.5% of targets pay the ransom, Slack breaks even on this racket, so in absence of any protection this strategy is most likely profitable for Slack. This is something you pull if you want to squeeze in the short term, and don't mind losing customers.

I'm pretty sure they want to lose all of the non-lucrative customers.

Re: Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year

#437
post #82

Since you're a nonprofit that teaches coding, it could be a great time to consider self-hosting a FOSS chat tool. Suggestions: Campfire [0] or Zulip [1]. Also, if the data in chat is being held hostage, the org might be using chat wrong. Right tool for right purpose. If starting over, perhaps consider if it would make sense to put that documentation or whatever it is that will get "lost" from Slack into a wiki or rep…

I'm in Hack Club, the team is moving all of us to self-hosted Mattermost. It is unfortunate that we have to re-code so many things though.

I personally see any kind of subscription as a technical debt.

Re: Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year

#438
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! Ty! And Hack club is totally free to teens and we provide travel stipends, hardware, electronics and more. (We don’t charge 7 percent to clubs to sell things :)) hack club run a fiscal sponsorship and adult-orgs using it pay us 7percent- which we use to make more things free to teens. - hack club cofounder here

Have you thought about moving to Discord? I'm sure it won't be free for your org, but could be friendlier terms.

Going from a greedy corporation to another greedy corporation is not a good idea.

Re: Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year

#439
saas are really owning themselves by pulling crap like this.

I work in education sector, over the last year or so multiple saas providers have pulled this, we've inevitably gone in house, self hosted, open source. Saved tonnes of money and have bought skills back in house.

Re: Slack has raised our charges by $195k per year

#440

I think what they did is slimy as hell, but it's hard to side with anyone using Discord, Slack, et al for doing community based support and building a knowledge base. This was not an issue in the era of forums, that supposedly were replaced with SaaS closed communities because of spam... Fyi, Campfire is open source now: https://github.com/basecamp/once-campfire

You're finding it "hard to side" with a literal nonprofit charity getting bullied ruthlessly because something something SaaS not self-managed? My God, dude.

I would find it hard to side with Jesus Christ himself if he decided to start teaching via Discord server.
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