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Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#431

Post by HideousKojima »

philistine wrote: post #97
neilv wrote: post #89

Can someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For exampl…

You're overthinking this. The university is vocal about keeping its independence. That's enough to warrant retaliation from this president.

[flagged]

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#432

Post by nashashmi »

littlestymaar wrote: post #415
nashashmi wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You are attributing too much power to the Israeli. Trump signed a ceasefire with Houthi last week that doesn't protects Israel: that is, the US stops bombing them as long as they don't attack US ships, and attacks against Israel aren't a casus belli for the US anymore. The Republican party is strongly favorable to Israel, but since Netanyahou pissed Trump, they don't get special treatment anymore, that's what happen…

I am not sure why you think overseas policy going against Israel’s wishes directly means Israel doesn’t have influence in the United States.

I find it awkward you think that Israel is not giving special treatment to the US if the US does not do something in favor of Israel in foreign affairs. Awkward.

More awkward is that you think the US is not protecting Israel if it has a ceasefire with Houthis.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#433

Post by benlivengood »

logicchains wrote: post #340
dzdt wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stated reasons are not the real reasons. None of this is above-board. If you pay too much attention to what phony reasons are stated you will just be lead around by your nose. The part of the real reason that is made very obvious is that Harvard is not rolling over and doing whatever the regime asks of it, and attacks of the administration on Harvard will continue until that capitulation occurs.

>Harvard is not rolling over and doing whatever the regime asks of it The regime only started asking such things after large Pro-Palestinian protests took place at Harvard. That's absolutely the root cause, especially since Trump took hundreds of millions of dollars in funding from committed Zionists.

Trump is also an authoritarian and so is committed to strengthening existing regimes he sees as "strong". Presumably on the assumption that they will be "allies" or at least give him something back. Pro-Palestinian protests are very anti-authoritarian (next thing you know, those same protesters will be against mass U.S. deportations) and so a priority target for suppression.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#434

Post by dmvdoug »

firesteelrain wrote: post #227
achristmascarl wrote: post #25

I wonder what avenues there are for Harvard to challenge this; it looks like the mechanism the Trump Admin used was for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to cancel Harvard's Student and Exchange Visitor Program (SEVP) certification [0] which is managed by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) [1]. Does ICE just have full discretion over SEVP? Can they do this to any school for whatever reason they want? […

Under 8 U.S.C. § 1372, the SEVIS (Student and Exchange Visitor Information System) program requires schools to report data on international students including what DHS has been asking for. Harvard may argue that DHS’s request was overly broad, lacked due process, or sought information beyond what the law permits. 8 CFR § 214.3(g) and § 214.4(b), which require schools to maintain and furnish records “as required by th…

The actual statute provides the categories of information schools must provide about their students. It’s not a “whatever we happen to ask for” list. See 8 U.S.C. § 1372. Needless to say, “protest activity” is not included.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#435

Post by mlyle »

mmooss wrote: post #234
adamors wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Checks and balances are just words. So yes, they can and will do everything they want.

> Checks and balances are just words. By that logic, Trump's orders are just words. The Trump administration obeys the courts - they push the envelope way too far, but it is still rule of law.

> The Trump administration obeys the courts

We have multiple judges beginning contempt proceedings against the administration, so this is open to debate.

And, there's recent action in the budget bill to attempt to defang judges' contempt powers, seemingly in response.

"No court of the United States may use appropriated funds to enforce a contempt citation for failure to comply with an injunction or temporary restraining order if no security was given when the injunction or order was issued"

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#436

Post by tick_tock_tick »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #202
baggle wrote: post #178

[flagged]

> student records that can be used to determine if a student visa holder has violated their visa What do they need from Harvard to determine if an individual has violated their visa? Does the administration not have a list of students on a visa? (Surely they do, given that's their job.) Do they not have evidence of a crime? (Surely they do, otherwise there's no problem. But also apparently not, because they'd just us…

> What do they need from Harvard to determine if an individual has violated their visa? Does the administration not have a list of students on a visa? (Surely they do, given that's their job.) Do they not have evidence of a crime? (Surely they do, otherwise there's no problem. But also apparently not, because they'd just use that.) What's missing?

None of that really matter Harvard is required to report this data to maintain good standing in the Student and Exchange Visitor Program. Failure to do so can result to removal from the program and as such the ability to bring people in on student visas. That is the path they are attacking. Harvard has also been very public about it's refusable to comply with the legal requirements of the program so it's a pretty slam dunk case.

I think Harvard just didn't think the administration would actually follow through.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#438

Post by homefree »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #339
dragonwriter wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. The simple answer is that they don't. Alumni are often in powerful positions, but even they are, that is very different from the school itself exerting influence.

A friend is a big Harvard alum. He says that most of his classmates are very unhappy with the direction of the university. So in his circle the alumni may be cheering this on. Maybe not the extremism but the general idea of telling Harvard that it needs to get back to truth-seeking.

Yeah this is also my read, people are horrified by the university behavior and generally supportive of the administration on this stuff. The 'elite' schools are becoming a counter signal it'll be embarrassing to have attended.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#439

Post by yoyohello13 »

HEmanZ wrote: post #306
sva_ wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He will already have serves his second (and therefore last) term, or what do you mean?

I find it unlikely but… Much of my extended family would absolutely join a civil war on side Trump to get him into a permanent position of power if given the opportunity. Some of them are in the military. So it’s not unreasonable by world history standards that he could get a subset of the military on his side in a coup scenario. I think people in large urban centers or outside of the US don’t realize how much certai…

Yeah the amount of people I heard praising God when he was elected was disturbing. People literally believe he is a messiah. It's terrifying.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#440

Post by Hilift »

neilv wrote: post #89

Can someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For exampl…

> For example, getting things done with prestige connections, domestically and internationally. And the international diplomatic goodwill

What you describe is relatively recent development of US foreign policy. In 1959, John F. Kennedy purchased a copy of The Ugly American for all of his fellow US Senators. After Kennedy was elected, many foreign service programs were initiated to leverage soft power. That was JFK's legacy.

Prior to that, the US acted much in the same way as it is today. It came up with Bretton Woods, along with the UK. The people that ran the world were the Averill Harrimans and Prescott Bushes.

In 1956, the US basically told the UK it wasn't going to back the Prime Minister (Anthony Eden) with regards to the Suez Canal. That was probably a sobering indication that the UK was going to be a supplicant in the relationship. The US also returned Vietnam to France (as was policy after WW2), which of course precipitated 20 years of war in southeast asia.

The end of the WW2, and the discovery of the infiltration of Russian agents in the dead Roosevelt administration put Truman in panic mode. The iron curtain and cold war basically turned foreign policy into a huge power grab after the war to position against a perceived threat.

https://www.thehistoryreader.com/us-history/ugly-american-jf...

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