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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#431

Post by dylan604 »

scarface_74 wrote: post #286
tacomagick wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As far as we know" is the most important part.

Don’t you think out of the thousands of Apple employees that someone would leak it?

Not necessarily. There's a lot of people absolutely unwilling to risk loosing their salary and career. If you are doxxed as the leaker, what other company would hire you? I'm not even considering if there could be criminal charges involved as well.

Snowden left an example of what kind of lifestyle is possible after leaking, and I doubt snowflakes at FAANG would be down for that. Or how about other examples of leakers that have turned up dead? That's a cheery thought to consider.

So yeah, at this point in time, I do believe there's a lot of people that might not agree, but are not up for the task.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#432

Post by arghwhat »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #295
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

You're assuming that turning off ADP in the U.K. is sufficient to appease the British Government. The Investigatory Powers Act can also be interpreted to give the U.K. the right to ask for encrypted data from users outside of the U.K. (see Apple making this exact point in a filing here [1].) Turning off ADP in the U.K. doesn't end the controversy if that's what's at stake. [1] https://bsky.app/profile/matthewdgreen.b…

They might have to settle for it. The power of a government is not equal to what legislation they pass - they are heavily limited by the economic and publicity consequences of decisions.

As such, any outcome where this is enforced will be a compromise.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#433

Post by joshuaissac »

flaminHotSpeedo wrote: post #416
Spivak wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We literally tried to do this with TikTok. We can't exactly stand on a high-horse when the highest level of government in the US was totally fine with it. Our noble "we can't have American data in the hands of our enemies," their savage "forcing American companies to turn over user data."

Edit: I misread the comment tree, I thought this comment was equating the TikTok situation to the UK's request. I agree that the TikTok demands are pretty similar, though I might quibble over whether they're literally the same, since arrangements like that are the status quo in China but not in the US Original comment below: How is "remove foreign control of data on our nation's users" remotely the same as "give us a…

It's not clear which scenario you are referring to.

If by "give us access to foreign users' data", you mean TikTok, then ByteDance is only required to sell the US portion of TikTok to American buyers. If you mean iCloud, then Apple is only required to keep Chinese users' data on local servers.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#434

Post by throw0101c »

izacus wrote: post #360
throw0101c wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By banning Apple from doing business in the UK. To use poker terminology: I think that if the UK made this bet that Apple would call.

Apple stockholders would never allow that.

> Apple stockholders would never allow that.

Then they can vote in a board of directors that agrees with them, and have that board fire Tim Cook.

I would hazard to guess that you'll see an exodus of a lot of folks leaving Apple either because (a) they won't follow that order, or (b) in solidarity with those that are fired.

Reminder that privacy is feature that Apple touts (how much you believe them is up to you):

> On January 28, 2021, Apple CEO Tim Cook delivered remarks at Computers, Privacy & Data Protection Conference: Enforcing Rights in a Changing World. The virtual conference — hosted annually in Brussels, Belgium — is one of the foremost international privacy and technology conferences bringing together leaders from academia, government, civil society and the private sector. Learn more about the features and controls Apple provides users to safeguard their privacy at http://www.apple.com/privacy

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaLxTz1Yw7M

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HjDpPnxcP0

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YOi0r3vptQ

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#436

Post by robertlagrant »

doublerabbit wrote: post #379
Chance-Device wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you think maybe this attitude is part of the problem?

Not at all. We should be banding together to make the next best thing but people are lazy, but who can blame them? Easier to just press the big red NetFlix button and then order food on GrubEats. I'm being realistic, in the capitalist world we live in unless you have assets, power your worth nothing. You have no voice, no power, ever. Where's the futuristic project that saves the world? I'm sure the next JavaScript l…

> I'm being realistic, in the capitalist world we live in unless you have assets your worth nothing. You have no voice, no power, ever.

Describe a better (on average) world and let's try it.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#437

Post by r00fus »

talldayo wrote: post #410
arghandugh wrote: post #407

Love swinging through here to collect the latest crop of: - that’s silly - they can’t do that legally - this makes no technical sense - this is a bad idea - this will never happen The entire globe becomes Xi Jinpeng’s China with American Characteristics after the iCloud encryption system is neutered and a court warrant is no longer needed.

To be fair, Apple seemingly has no qualms letting the CCP surveil iCloud: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351

Because iCloud in China is complete separate from the rest of the world.

China is not asking to see other countries’ iCloud data.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#438

Post by nxm »

curtisblaine wrote: post #392
filcuk wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People here are very passive and used to being pulled around. It's insane how far people's rights have eroded already. No right to protest, no right for privacy - what's next on the chopping block?

No right to be mean on social media, too.

Who defines what is mean? Oh yes, some unelected bureaucrat

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#439

Post by Paradigma11 »

cbsks wrote: post #385
aunty_helen wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you using Russia and China as examples of the bad guys here. They're not asking for global access to everyones data, the UK is. The UK are the bad guys.

Because the UK is “on our side”. We’ve always been at war with Eastasia.

I dont think that is actually true in those cases.

Relations with China were pretty cosy till they did a 180 around the second Bush administration and started all that Wolf Warrior diplomacy, 9 dotted line stuff, Hongkong crackdowns.......

Regarding Russia, nobody really cared at all till it was absolutely impossible to ignore. Putin seems to think that he needs the west as an enemy to bolster his standing and power. Just remember after starting the full scale invasion he proudly declared "I hope I will now be heard" or something to that effect. In Russian mass media the imperial project has long been clear and accepted.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#440

Post by lern_too_spel »

Funes- wrote: post #216

Further proof against the idea that we live in "democracies", if anyone still believes that. We're at the hands of petty tyrants. Modern societies are surveillance hellholes, and it seems to only get worse and worse. So much for "progress".

I think you'll find that the majority of UK's citizens believe its government should be able to access data with a warrant. Whether the dēmos agree with your particular values is another matter, but this is not obviously undemocratic, unlike royal assent.
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