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More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

theguardian.com

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Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#431

Post by dyauspitr »

numpad0 wrote: post #237
dyauspitr wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that grew up with 4chan I got pretty desensitized to all of the above very quickly. Only thing I couldn’t watch was animal abuse videos. That was all yers ago though, now I’m fully sensitized to all of it again.

These accounts like yours and this report of PTSD don't line up. Both of them are credible. What's driving them crazy but not Old Internet vets? Could it be: - the fact that moderators are hired and paid - that kids are young and a lot more tolerant - that moderators aren't intended audiences - backgrounds, sensitivity in media at all - the amount, of disturbing images - the amount, in total, not just bad ones - anyt…

Because intent and perspective play a huge role is how we feel about things. Some people are excited for war and killing their enemies makes them feel better about themselves whereas others come back from war broken and traumatized. A lot of it depends on how you or others frame that experience for you.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#432

Post by para_parolu »

gorbachev wrote: post #392
para_parolu wrote: post #7

One of few fields where AI is very welcome

Until the AI moderator flags your home videos as child porn, and you lose your kids.

Not sure why anyone should have access to my home videos: ai or not.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#433

Post by para_parolu »

sunaookami wrote: post #86
para_parolu wrote: post #7

One of few fields where AI is very welcome

No, this just leads to more censorship without any option to appeal.

How it’s different from some random guy in Kenia? Not like you will ask him to double check results.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#434

Post by bowsamic »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #421
bowsamic wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt this way for the first 30 years of my life. Then I received treatment for depression (psychoanalysis) and finally tasted joy for the first time in my entire life. Now I love life. YMMV EDIT: If you’re interested what actually happened is that I was missing the prerequisite early childhood experience that enables one to feel secure in reality. If you check, all the people who have this feeling of philosophical/…

But psychoanalysis is literally psudoscientific nonsense. You got spooked.

No it isn’t, it’s empirically justified, look it up. Hence why the state insurance here in Germany is willing to pay for me to go three times a week. It works

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#435

Post by janderson215 »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #142
HarryHirsch wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the solution is that Facebook shouldn't exist. It solves both the problem of distribution and the problem of moderation.

If others want to moderate why should these complainers get in the way? They are free to not take the job, which obviously involves looking at repulsive content so others don’t have to. Most people don't have a problem with social media existing or moderators having the job of a moderator.

It’s a little funny that we have heard concerns about AI eliminating jobs but now we’re hearing they’re concerned AI hasn’t taken this particular job.

Makes me wonder what the number of people is who also have this job who don’t want this lawsuit to happen for exactly that reason - that their job will be eliminated.

120 people out of how many? Tens of thousands globally?

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#436

Post by sharken »

quesomaster9000 wrote: post #397

The Kenyan moderators' PTSD reveals the fundamental paradox of content moderation: we've created an enterprise-grade trauma processing system that requires concentrated psychological harm to function, then act surprised when it causes trauma. The knee-jerk reaction of suggesting AI as the solution is, IMO, just wishful thinking - it's trying to technologically optimize away the inherent contradiction of bureaucratize…

The proper knee-jerk reaction would be to ban this kind of work, but that would also mean disallowing content sharing on Facebook.

That is why this type of work will not go away.

And AI is just not good enough to do this, I fully agree.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#437

Post by motorest »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #421
bowsamic wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt this way for the first 30 years of my life. Then I received treatment for depression (psychoanalysis) and finally tasted joy for the first time in my entire life. Now I love life. YMMV EDIT: If you’re interested what actually happened is that I was missing the prerequisite early childhood experience that enables one to feel secure in reality. If you check, all the people who have this feeling of philosophical/…

But psychoanalysis is literally psudoscientific nonsense. You got spooked.

> But psychoanalysis is literally psudoscientific nonsense. You got spooked.

OP got spooked to stop suffering and love life instead? Is that your cautionary tale?

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#438

Post by noch »

smokel wrote: post #412
noch wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any idea what our next steps are? [..] try to figure out a less damaging knowledge-based filtering mechanism [..] It should cost some amount of money to post anything online on any social media platform: pay to post a tweet, article, image, comment, message, reply. (Incidentally, crypto social networks have this by default simply due to constraints in how blockchains work.)

How will this help?

The article says:

> The images and videos including necrophilia, bestiality and self-harm caused some moderators to faint, vomit, scream and run away from their desks, the filings allege.

You might have heard the saying, common in policy and mechanism design: "Show me the incentives, and I'll show you the outcome."

If you want to reduce spam, you increase the marginal cost of posting spam until it stops. In general if you introduce a small cost to any activity or service, the mere existence of the cost is often a sufficient disincentive to misuse.

But, you can think through implications for yourself, no? You don't need me to explain how to think about cause and effect? You can, say, think about examples in real life, or in your own town or building, where a service is free to use compared to one that has a small fee attached, and look at who uses what and how.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#439

Post by noch »

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #422
noch wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any idea what our next steps are? [..] try to figure out a less damaging knowledge-based filtering mechanism [..] It should cost some amount of money to post anything online on any social media platform: pay to post a tweet, article, image, comment, message, reply. (Incidentally, crypto social networks have this by default simply due to constraints in how blockchains work.)

This is a great idea to prevent bots, but that’s not who posts the bad stuff this thread is talking about. Wherever you set the threshold will determine a point of wealth where someone can no longer afford to speak on these platforms, and that inevitably will prevent change, which tends to come from the people not well-served by the system as it is, i.e. poor people. Is that your goal?

> a point of wealth where someone can no longer afford to speak on these platforms, and that inevitably will prevent change, which tends to come from the people not well-served by the system as it is, i.e. poor people.

"Change" in itself is not a virtue. What I think you want is good or beneficial change? That said, what evidence do you have that poor people specifically are catalysing positive change online?

> This is a great idea to prevent bots, but that’s not who posts the bad stuff this thread is talking about.

There is no difference between a bot and a human as far as a network is concerned. After all, bots are run by humans.

The article specifically says that: "The images and videos including necrophilia, bestiality and self-harm caused some moderators to faint, vomit, scream and run away from their desks, the filings allege."

> Is that your goal?

Simply making it cost something to post online will mean that people who want to post spam can directly pay for the mental healthcare of moderators who remove their content.

If it turns out that you can find a group of people so poor that they simultaneously have valuable things to say online yet can't afford to post, then you can start a non-profit or foundation to subsidize "poor people online". (Hilariously, the crypto-bros do this when they're trying to incentivize use of their products: they set aside funds to "sponsor" thousands of users to the tune of tens of millions of dollars a year in gas refunds, airdrops, rebates and so forth.)

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#440

Post by [deleted] »

ternnoburn wrote: post #424
meiraleal wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's possible with just a well placed punch to the nose or to one of the eyes. I've seen and done that, in public schools.

Uh... sure, maybe during the initial swelling. But that's temporarily rendered unrecognizable. If you caused enough damage such that someone could not later be recognized, I wonder why you are not in prison.

[deleted]
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