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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

techspot.com

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#431

Post by aceazzameen »

megablast wrote: post #410
crabbone wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a bunch of crock. I have this new Nokia phone with a replaceable battery. It came with the pin you can use to open it (probably costs a few cents to manufacture, but if I had plenty of time to spare, I could've made one with a sturdy piece of plastic and sandpaper). The "mechanism" that keeps the back panel is just a piece of rubber, probably the same kind you find on hermetically sealing food containers. Also,…

> Also, very few people want their phones water-proof (what for?). This is insane. So that rain doesn’t destroy it? So that spilling a drink doesn’t destroy it? So that dropping it in the toilet doesn’t destroy it?

Back when phones still had removable batteries, I had them rained on, spilled on, and even dropped one in the toilet. I then submerged that one in a bowl of rubbing alcohol for several minutes. In all those instances, I popped the battery out and let it dry. I've never had a phone destroyed by water. Worst case was buy a new battery! Back then non-waterproof phones without removable batteries also existed. I'm sure they succumbed to water much more easily.

I'd take a removeable battery over almost every modern feature on phones today.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#432

Post by simondotau »

brookst wrote: post #205
munk-a wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch makers solved this problem decades ago - there are very reasonable mechanical solutions to waterproofing. And if some limited components need to be sealed (i.e. the USB port requires special shielding) that sealing can easily exist in a device that is otherwise reasonable to maintain. Watch maintenance has been done by skilled professionals using generic tools and (generally) generic components. Waterproofing i…

How does the case size of a watch compare to the movement size? Are you prepared to have a similar ratio for your phone? Basically the phones we have now with a permanent, very durable waterproof case?

This is precisely the point. It’s easy to make a durable case if it can be more than twice the size of the components it’s encasing.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#433

Post by lolinder »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #388
danpalmer wrote: post #6

I love the EU's focus on consumer protections and I'm all for progressive policies on environmental issues, but this and the USB-C issue strike me as misguided, policies from people who aren't qualified to to make the decisions they are making, and aren't listening to experts. I'm glad we're getting USB-C on the iPhone, but it wasn't a huge problem and it was probably coming anyway in the next few years. But replacea…

Battery is the only part of the phone that is guaranteed to fail with normal use, and making the battery hard to replace is a huge pain for end users (and in turn, to their wallets and the environment). Just pulling off the back plate and using your fingernail to replace the battery has turned to having to heat the screen, insert a wedge under the glass, but not deeper than X mm, scrub away the glue, without beaking…

> Battery is the only part of the phone that is guaranteed to fail with normal use

I hang onto my phones until the software becomes unusable, either because apps drop support for my OS (and I can't update any more) or I get scared into upgrading for security. I've never had a battery fail or even get to the point where it doesn't last a whole day—the software fails first.

My understanding is that it's different with iOS, because Apple is much better at supporting their old phones than most Android manufacturers.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#434

Post by ncallaway »

jenadine wrote: post #428
jacknews wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, the subheading 'Sleek slabs could soon be a thing of the past' is bogus. This is not a requirement to have 'cartridge' user-replaceable batteries, just that you should be able to open the phone and remove the battery (not much emphasis on actually replacing it) with easily available tools, rather than heatguns, solvents, proprietary glass-pullers etc.

Are heatguns and solvents not "commercially available tools"?

Pretty sure heatguns would qualify as "thermal energy", and solvents would be...well solvents.

> ... or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#435

Post by wizofaus »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #420
wizofaus wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it drives an uptick in sales in the EU you can count on it being eventually implemented for customers in the US and elsewhere too. Though it's even possible Apple knows it will help sell the devices better - at least initially, but they prefer to have users more firmly locked into the Apple ecosystem.

> they prefer to have users more firmly locked into the Apple ecosystem. Every time someone says shit like "locked into the Apple ecosystem", god kills a kitten. Lots of people switch back and forth between iOS and Android. Nobody's going to go for USB-C on their iPhones if they can get Lightning ports. The Lightning port is far superior mechanically (both more durable and easier to clean from debris) and unlike most…

I only claimed it were possible, but it would (pleasantly) surprise me if there were executives at Apple that thought interoperability with competing technologies should be part of their corporate strategy.

Lightning ports may well be technically superior (I can't really judge as I've had dozens of devices using USB-C, 95% of the time with no issues, but relatively few occasions to use lightning ports - thought I do have an iPad that's bricked currently because I can't find a cable for it), but if Apple is unwilling to license the technology to other manufacturers then there's no chance of it ever being any sort of universal standard.

Personally I'd rather hoped that by now we didn't need cables/plugs at all!

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#436

Post by AnthonyMouse »

robertlagrant wrote: post #226
pinusc wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would require doing things slightly differently, such as hardware vendors having to buy the rights to redistribute firmware blobs / source code... just because it's hard it doesn't matter it can't happen. After all, if physical components can be brought together to make a product, why can't software licenses move with them? One could also imagine radically different IP laws concerning firmware or even software.

Software is replicable. It might open up companies' IP to worldwide competition. That's the difference from hardware.

We're talking about firmware which is device-specific, which is why it has to be released separately for each device.

Moreover, there exist devices with fully open source firmware, so if anybody wanted one to copy, they don't need yours. They only need yours to use it with your hardware.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#437

Post by tgv »

roenxi wrote: post #402
landemva wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> We live in extreme times I thought fear-driven hyperbole ended with the expiry of covid lockdowns. On to the next end of the world story.

If these are normal times, then we really must question what the hell the EU is doing as part of its normal operations (hint: see the headline at the top of this web page). There are a lot of urgent problems to deal with and political bandwidth is being spent on an obsession by politicians and/or bureaucrats who think they have better design chops than Apple, world's premier category-defining phone designer. It'd be…

The amount of assumptions you need to defend your anti-EU stance!

First, the EU doesn't have that much power. It's restricted to commerce and a small part of intergovernmental policy. Defense, tax, criminal laws, education, wellfare, etc., are all outside its remit.

Second, this doesn't take that much "political bandwidth." Someone proposes it, they discuss, end of. This is not an attempt at extending the parliament's power, or controversial.

Third, where do you get the idea from that Apple makes the best design decisions for consumers? They're a rather capitalist and very American company. They exist to increase profits and shareholder value.

Fourth, even something that is well designed from one perspective, can be bad from another. Repairability is one such aspect. The EU is not very activist when it comes to ecology, but at least they get this right.

Fifth. The A fucking D. That's partially on the neo-liberals. Their grubby little hands have made life for certain groups hard and taken away any prospect. Hence people turn to extreme protest parties. For another part, it's on extremist politicians, of course, but also those on the "good" side, with their holier-than-thou attitude. That drives people to the wrong side. None of these is anywhere near the authority of the EU. Make the SDP go back to its roots, and vote for it.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#439

Post by scarface_74 »

evilos wrote: post #390
petsfed wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do most watches have ports that are designed for thousands of uses? My smart watch sure does. But of all the possible avenues by which its waterproofness might fail, that connector is #1. I'm pretty sure its custom, as the cable has actual pogo pins to connect. Strictly from a product design and especially hardware design standpoint, I get the resistance to easy replacement of certain parts. Designing for a replaceab…

These phones have been made before at scale, I'm sure we could manage: https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s5-6033.php > What is the point of replacing a battery when the charging port, headphone jack, physical buttons, touch screen, etc are spec'd to fail well before the average battery does Parts often/usually last far in excess of what they're spec'd for as I'm sure you know. And many of the things you list ar…

And they also required the flap to be closed for it to be water resistant.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#440

Post by martin8412 »

jrm4 wrote: post #143

Just broadly, let me just echo my full throated support for regulation in this space. Forget the vast majority of the goofy "innovation" arguments I hear, the fact that 3 family cell phones, 2 laptops, Steam Deck, Nintendo Switch, and Oculus can all use the same charger makes insanely more sense that what we were doing before.

The Nintendo Switch charger isn't standards compliant, and if you use another charger, it might not be able to keep up with the power draw of the Nintendo Switch.
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