All of this drama / culture war or whatever you want to call it is a big part of what turned me off to Rust in the first place. I come from .NET background and am open to the idea of a realistic C/C++ replacement. My experience with .NET and its "community" has left me with a really comfortable feeling with regard to my ability to do business, just "get shit done", etc. To be clear, there isn't really a community. I…
What's a LARP?
Why I Left Rust
431–440 of 880 posts
Re: Why I Left Rust
#432We are the C. Resistance is futile. Your technological and paradigmatic distinctiveness will be added to our own. The syntax will be clunky. It will be full of dangerous and ugly ways to misuse it. You will be adapted to single pass compile. Lower your shields.
Re: Why I Left Rust
#433Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure there's a real connection between the languages at least when it comes to "drama". Especially considering JavaScript is the most used language, or at least in the top 5 at this rate due to how low the entry barrier is for serious use. So purely from numbers, there's bound to be a bunch with a background in JavaScript, as with any other new language. You could have also said the same thing about Python for th…
Wow, no kidding: https://old.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/vxgzrl/changes_in_the... Mod response: > For all those wondering about removed comments, there was some trolling going on which was summarily removed by the mods. > Please avoid any trolling and/or drama seeking comments and remember our subreddit rules. "Trolling" on display in the archives of that thread: https://www.reveddit.com/v/rust/comments/vxgzrl/changes…
I've been involved with Software Development for over 20 years started with VB6 and some perl/python in 1998. I saw the "informal code of conduct" and it never worked. What really happened: many people were treating terribly and most of it was swept under the rug. CoC were created for valid and good reasons. I'm not defending the Rust community here, it seems childish to me. The past is not what you are trying to claim it was in this post. Look up the MANY Rails conference sexual harassment issues and worse.
We should not whitewash the past because the present isn't what we want.
Re: Why I Left Rust
#434Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…
It's a shame that people are so thin-skinned they can't handle a difference of opinion on architecture. All I can say is wow. I feel they really need to use this as a moment of reflection. Is democracy dead? No committee will ever work if there has to be unanimous decisions on everything, unless you are living in an echo chamber.
Re: Why I Left Rust
#435All of this drama / culture war or whatever you want to call it is a big part of what turned me off to Rust in the first place. I come from .NET background and am open to the idea of a realistic C/C++ replacement. My experience with .NET and its "community" has left me with a really comfortable feeling with regard to my ability to do business, just "get shit done", etc. To be clear, there isn't really a community. I…
Well, Microsoft itself is using Rust now, in the Windows kernel no less. If they reverse that decision, then we have cause for concern. Otherwise, I'm sure this will all blow over.
Re: Why I Left Rust
#436Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…
Looks like the Rust community could use some reflection ;)
Perhaps the people feeling most uncomfortable about reflection are those who need it most.
Re: Why I Left Rust
#437I see so much angst here, an awful lot of it hinging around:
* it’s a language and technical thing so human emotions and feelings don’t matter HTFU
* there’s a race and diversity aspect and anything that has to do with race and diversity offends me HTFU
Or some variant.
These are people doing stuff they’re passionate about. You may be an end user and don’t care about the internal politics, but for these folks it’s a group of humans working together with all the emotional complexities of such things. It’s more like a job for them than a technical project - with all the HR issues those entail. If you’ve ever worked on a standards effort it’s even more the human complexity roller coaster than a job. Add in they’re a bunch of socially maladjusted nerds, and the thresholds for drama are lower and the ability to navigate is even worse.
So, I think empathy for those who are hurt and their reasons isn’t uncalled for. Hearing the other side would be useful too.
On the race and diversity side: having a black person give a key note at a conference of this technical depth would be good. Arguing it shouldn’t matter doesn’t consider black engineers in a field where there are no peers like them that are visible. In your life where you’re surrounded by people like you everywhere you go it’s likely hard to understand directly, but as a nerd remember when you were in middle school and you just wished for one other person who loved assembler as much as you. That scratches the surface of the feeling of exclusion minority engineers feel - except it didn’t end in middle school, it happens every day in every interaction. Then when someone dares say “hey yeah I get you,” they get shouted down for “making it political,” which sounds an awful lot like “I don’t like black people standing up for themselves” to black peoples ears - further isolating them. I’m sorry you find that inconvenient and you feel like it shouldn’t matter. But as the person who doesn’t fit in and is made to remember that in situations and discussions like this, it’s bound to hurt. Hence, hence the emotions of hurt and betrayal on display.
Re: Why I Left Rust
#438As a non-american I must say I don't understand where the latter half of the article comes from. Why care about race? Why must a racist reason be sought behind everything?
[flagged]
> even USian anthropologists (roughly) agree with me
But also note that the position of the AAA is not that racial inequality does not exist at all (and therefore should not be spoken of, as seems to be your position); their position is that it exists on social, rather than biological, grounds:
> we conclude that present-day inequalities between so-called "racial" groups are not consequences of their biological inheritance but products of historical and contemporary social, economic, educational, and political circumstances
Re: Why I Left Rust
#439This is certainly strangely phrased. The version I got from another member was that the content of the talk was to be about a proposed feature that may not actually end up in Rust (in my view it likely would not), and having that be the keynote talk would imply to a lot of people that it would end up in Rust and put the language in an uncomfortable position where something other than the feature's merit would be push…
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Re: Why I Left Rust
#440Earlier quoted context omitted.
I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart broke. I wept because of the cruelty. I wouldn’t want to work with someone that wrote this. I’m not sure which is worse—if it’s hyperbole or it isn’t.
Let us see you rewrite it given the community culture and guidelines. Can't write i left because of toxic pieces of shit people with zero empathy.
If you're leaving the community anyway, does it matter if you violate the CoC through being honest about your opinions?