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People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

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Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#431

Post by dennis_jeeves1 »

spacedcowboy wrote: post #309
rcpt wrote: post #277

“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high…

This is where my wife was, a week or so ago. She was initially admitted to hospital for low Sodium (hyponatremia) with no obvious symptoms - we actually went for something else which was benign. They corrected the low Sodium, but they corrected it quickly - possibly too quickly [1]. The next day she started to become non-responsive, and the day after was completely non-responsive - didn't react to pain stimuli, dropp…

> Still trying to answer "why won't someone help me ?" without sounding trite and jaded.

It's a combination excessive bureaucracy/control/legalization of the medical profession in addition to incompetence, apathy etc. You are unfortunately on your own, as is everyone else. A lame "I feel sorry for you", is all I can say, that you have to go through it

(for those interested in starting some kind of parallel medicine, and willing to do what it takes to learn the ropes, see my profile and get in touch with me.)

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#432

Post by [deleted] »

harimau777 wrote: post #281
cedws wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40 Sorry but... it kind of is, no? You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family. You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices. You're probabl…

I see it almost the exact opposite. I'm in my early 30s without a wife or kids and I feel like my life is basically over because of it.

[deleted]

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#433

Post by JohnBooty »

rrgok wrote: post #412
JohnBooty wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We made the choice not to have children, but I do feel that desire to pass on my genes. What's it like? sexual desire is like taking a piss I would say it's less of a basic biological desire like peeing or sneezing, and more like... esoteric/abstract concepts like "the desire to do good" or "the desire to achieve." I realize it's not really a logical desire, and even though I do feel it, it's far from my highest prio…

I see, thank you for your point of view. There are times I feel lonely, even though I like to be alone most of the time, and when that happens I wonder if having a child would've changed anything. It really must be an "abstract" feeling, because I cannot get to that feeling in any way.

i guess, in addition to that, there's also the practical aspect of your children taking care of you when you are older. that can be a significant motivator.

in many (most?) parts of the world that is the norm.

however, that is of course a... highly unreliable way of making sure you are taken care of when you are older!

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#434

Post by anonymouskimmer »

mthoms wrote: post #430
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not really the best source to quote. Sure. I presumed people could parse out the emotion from such an obviously biased source and focus on the claims. But yes, cherry-picked quotes have a higher likelihood from such a source. The purpose of a source doesn't matter. Whether or not they are misrepresenting (and what they are misrepresenting) does. ProPublica exists solely "To expose abuses of power and betrayals…

Just take the "L" :-). You're not going to convince me that it was a worthwhile source, or that the motivations of a speaker don't deserve consideration. Thats plainly absurd. Especially when there's money AND (religious) ideology involved. Sorry. It's true that no source is perfect - but some sources are much less perfect than others. Anyways, thanks for the respectful dialogue. Cheers.

I was thinking of this as a discussion, not something people can win or lose. You having an opposite opinion isn't a loss to me, because we had a good discussion about it.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#435

Post by zaptenodytes »

spacedcowboy wrote: post #380
ianburrell wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you find a new PCP? One that may not be a good family doctor but can coordinate care. You are probably already doing it, but I have heard that it is really important to have advocate when patient can't organize themselves. If you can, go to appointments, take notes, and ask lots of questions. Push on uncertainty until get tests and answers. Try and solve separate problems, like Ativan dependency, so can focus on…

I'm in the process of looking for a new PCP - although now we actually do have access to the specialists that I think we needed to, and our interaction is more or less just "send a non-urgent message" on the web-platform, and get a referral back the next working day. I am at every single one of these appointments - I was in a better position to recall how things went down, and I am very much her advocate. She's had m…

Hey, I've read a few of your replies on this thread and wanted to give a (not official advice) medical perspective. I can't imagine what you and your wife are going through at the moment. As someone working in Australia, the US healthcare system sounds even worse than the stories.

Firstly, her sodium was initially pretty drastically low for just diarrhoea - almost to the point of seizures - unless she was permanently on the toilet and vomiting, and guzzling water (without electrolytes) - suggesting there may be some other underlying cause worth looking into, if she doesn't have major organ failure normally - heart, liver, kidneys.

Secondly, it was absolutely replaced too quickly - though osmotic demyelination syndrome is typically in chronic hyponatraemics whereas if your wife is normally healthy, her sodium should be in the normal range and an acute diarrhoeal illness, whilst a unlikely but possible cause of severe hyponatraemia, would generally be a more acute process. The pathophysiology is essentially that your brain adapts to low sodium and then when electrolytes are replaced rapidly, the brain shrinks rapidly which causes damage to the cells.

Thirdly, benzodiazepine withdrawal is absolutely not pleasant and could definitely contribute/worsen symptoms so that sounds like a terrible idea stopping without a taper.

Personally, I have never seen ODS/myelinolysis but a normal MRI is reassuring and it technically means the diagnosis is no longer possible - there are cases where early MRIs haven't demonstrated any changes but the evidence states that typically by 4 weeks if there is any damage, a scan should show it.

Obviously I don't know what other investigations have been done already, but I hope you and your wife reach a satisfactory resolution, even if it doesn't result in a definite diagnosis - unfortunately there are still many aspects of human health that we don't know about and definitely things exist that we cannot explain. For example, some aspects of the story that you've described make me think of fibromyalgia, which we don't have any good clinical diagnostic test for at this stage - it's just a clinical diagnosis. I'm not saying to give up, but sometimes chasing a definitive diagnosis often ends up proving futile and worsening the whole prognosis - just think about what you and your wife's goals are.

Also, on a sidenote, restless legs syndrome is a real condition (I'm not saying she has it but yes, it is real).

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#436

Post by pseudalopex »

robotresearcher wrote: post #373
pseudalopex wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commit and commit to have different meanings. You do not say people committed marriage.

You can be in a committed marriage.

You can be in a committed marriage if you committed to marriage. You do not say people committed marriage.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#437

Post by foxyv »

Suicide haunted me for years after we lost my brother. It's what spurred me to study secular buddhism which has been an end to so much of my suffering. I was never able to process my emotions and was completely unprepared for him to take his own life.

> Then, we must also realize that sometimes suicide occurs impulsively and there is no [unusual] behavior to detect. But… controlling access to drugs, places like high bridges and access to firearms [can help prevent it].

I can not re-emphasize this enough. If you have firearms in your home I would recommend getting rid of them unless you use them regularly for sport. If you do have a firearm in your home, secure it in such a way that you or your family cannot gain access to it without someone else knowing. Consider storing firearms offsite at a club or firearms locker. ESPECIALLY if you have children or anxious/depressed people in your home.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#438

Post by mdrzn »

colmvp wrote: post #194
harimau777 wrote: post #107

I've heard someone describe suicidal ideation as like being halfway through a multiplayer game where you are getting stomped: It's not that you want to rage quit, it's just that the outcome feels inevitable so you wish you could skip to the end. Or like turning off a ball game early when your team is down by an insurmountable points at the end of the third quarter. For at least some people, it may not be that they wa…

Exactly. Sometimes you play a game, and you realize, shit I invested points in these attributes but upon reading strategy guides, I realize I fucked up the distribution and there's no way to reset my character. What is the solution? Abandon the character.

Great example.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#439

Post by mthoms »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #434
mthoms wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just take the "L" :-). You're not going to convince me that it was a worthwhile source, or that the motivations of a speaker don't deserve consideration. Thats plainly absurd. Especially when there's money AND (religious) ideology involved. Sorry. It's true that no source is perfect - but some sources are much less perfect than others. Anyways, thanks for the respectful dialogue. Cheers.

I was thinking of this as a discussion, not something people can win or lose. You having an opposite opinion isn't a loss to me, because we had a good discussion about it.

I enjoyed the discussion. If you gave some semblance of acknowledgment that the opinion piece wasn't so great, and those same sentiments could be expressed in a more constructive manner we could have moved on. No worries, though. Cheers.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#440

Post by spacedcowboy »

zaptenodytes wrote: post #435
spacedcowboy wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the process of looking for a new PCP - although now we actually do have access to the specialists that I think we needed to, and our interaction is more or less just "send a non-urgent message" on the web-platform, and get a referral back the next working day. I am at every single one of these appointments - I was in a better position to recall how things went down, and I am very much her advocate. She's had m…

Hey, I've read a few of your replies on this thread and wanted to give a (not official advice) medical perspective. I can't imagine what you and your wife are going through at the moment. As someone working in Australia, the US healthcare system sounds even worse than the stories. Firstly, her sodium was initially pretty drastically low for just diarrhoea - almost to the point of seizures - unless she was permanently…

Thanks for the insight, it's much appreciated :)

I guess I didn't get across what I was trying to say about the "diagnosis" - be it restless-leg syndrome (which I totally agree is a real thing, not trying to downplay it) or one of the many other things they've come up with. The point I was failing :) to make was that they haven't come up with a diagnosis at all really - they're just throwing out there anything that might correspond to one of her symptoms, without addressing something that might be a root cause. IMNSHO :)

FWIW, she didn't have any significant diarrhoea - she had a mild instance of it. The thing is that we don't know if she had chronic or acute hyponatremia - she hadn't been for blood tests that would have picked it up in, well, forever, previously to going into hospital. It was news to us that she had it at all - we went in for an unrelated reason (which they told us was benign).

From my limited understanding having read up on it, it's possible she did have a long-term hyponatremia issue going on, and her body was just coping with it until it was discovered. They have done lots of blood-tests (metabolic panels, liver-function, urinalysis, various disease-specific tests, etc,) Her blood-work and imaging all come back fine.

Anyway, she has more CT and MRI scans over the next week or two, ordered by various specialists. Here's hoping they find something to explain it. I still come back to "9 weeks ago, she was without any of these symptoms. Rapidly fixing the hyponatremia has ruined her life". I don't believe too much in coincidence, so for her to suddenly come down with something else at the same time as a medical treatment that made her go completely non-responsive where she couldn't even say her name is stretching credulity too far for me, unless some extraordinary evidence is uncovered.

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