Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

techradar.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 868 posts

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#431

Post by lelanthran »

christophilus wrote: post #228
crote wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

> But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted.

Actually, the only incentive left is to make significantly better cables; the incentive to make marginal "improvements" in order to achieve vendor lock-in is removed.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#432

Post by Moldoteck »

can16358p wrote: post #152

"You have to use my designated charge port on your own device with your own adapter and change your own designs for that if you want to sell your device. We don't care if it's a step backwards in terms of design and internal space where every cubic millimeter is utilized." Not to defend Apple or anything but EU is being the mafia here.

Maybe because eu want to optimize for charging speed, data transfer and universality of the port? Standards exist for a reason and this reason usually doesn't allign with all wishes of the companies

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#433

Post by revelio »

mrtksn wrote: post #390
revelio wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not like EU making up things that members didn't ask for. The EU does opinion polls to find out what people's top concerns are. Guess what: mobile phone connectors, cookie popups, GDPR and all the other crap the EU engages in never gets anywhere even close to the top of the pile. We saw what the EU does when a member asks for changes requested by their "EU citizens". It told the UK to fuck off and then threw a…

Opinion polls are one thing, the EU itself is mede up of elected officials and officials appointed by elected officials. If UK wants to block travel and resident rights of EU citizens and keep access into EU markets, that's obviously where the EU has to say fuck off. Non-British have opinions too and the opinions are overweeningly that if you want to be in EU you have to have the same rights and obligations like ever…

In democracies opinion polls are regarded as important because people's opinions matter. The EU doesn't care about them because the EU is not a democracy.

Even if you pretend the distance between voters and decision makers doesn't matter, here's a simple test: did your countries elected official vote for von der Leyen? You don't know the answer because the process by which she was selected is totally opaque by design. We don't even know if there was a vote at all. We don't know why she was selected. The MEPs were given a choice of her or nobody else. So please don't tell people that the EU is democratic or made up of "officials appointed by elected officials".

"If UK wants to block travel and resident rights of EU citizens and keep access into EU markets"

The EU granted residency rights automatically to everyone from the EU who was living there, and the EU still told everyone in the country to fuck off - including millions of those so-called "EU citizens" whose so-called rights suddenly stopped mattering.

But this is really a sideshow. The fact is, nobody in Europe was going on protest marches about USB-C or kettle speeds. The EU spends time on this stuff because it's made up of powerful but bubble-living bureaucrats who don't care and don't have to care about what matters to everyone else.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#434

Post by revelio »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #399
revelio wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about the company that just re-introduced MagSafe, its widely praised proprietary power connector, and claiming the times of one company doing their own proprietary thing are close to gone? Apple is cleaning up in the PC market and has been for years by being as proprietary as possible.

Those laptop also support USB-C charging however, you don’t have to use MagSafe. They brought back MagSafe because customers weren’t satisfied with USB-C charging.

Yes ... exactly ... they reintroduced a non-standard connector because people preferred it to the standard one. See the problem?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#435

Post by CydeWeys »

dijit wrote: post #323
sokoloff wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That brings up an interesting question: “Is NEMA 5-15 in fact standardized by force of law?”

No, you can have receptacles of any shape in the USA, at least at the federal level. However it's not uncommon for this to be enforced by law, for example it is a legal requirement that in the UK all goods sold must adhere to the BS 1363-1 standard.

Ok, how about at most state levels then? I seriously doubt you could wire up new construction in a completely nonstandard way and then expect to pass inspection.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#436

Post by croes »

worrycue wrote: post #426
croes wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can't have different ports on a smartphone? You aren't forced to use only USB-C but to provide at least USB-C without artificial disadvantages. Without those standards the users are stuck or need to rebuy all accessories.

> Because you can't have different ports on a smartphone? You expect a space constrained device like a smartphone to have multiple ports?

There was a time where they had a least two, and the screen size and the phones got bigger since then.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#437

Post by AlchemistCamp »

heresie-dabord wrote: post #341
WanderPanda wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it’s the opposite, it ashames me to be an EU citizen. The problem with the EU is that it forces this kind of stuff on everyone instead of letting countries compete for the best policies. There is little/no feedback control hence it will drift down the usual decline of increasingly authoritarian systems. It‘s a shame because of the opportunity costs.

> instead of letting countries compete for the best policies. The way we have let manufacturers compete to create the best standard for power adaptors?

Yes. Apple, in particular, has driven adoption of new and improved cables and adapters. This has been true of USB, Firewire and Thunderbolt.

If the EU were as heavy handed 20 years ago as it is today, we'd almost certainly have less bandwidth and slower charging.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#438

Post by nickpp »

VonGallifrey wrote: post #201
nickpp wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people do not have "their own code". Instead it is your code you want me and my grandmother to load and I simply do not want to, unless you go through Apple's hurdles to check and verify it.

I don't want to jump out of a plane therefore I want to outlaw skydiving. Actually I don't have to outlaw things I don't like for myself. I will simply not go skydiving and other people are wellcome to take the risk for themselves. No one is forcing you to load anything you don't want to. You don't need to force your decision onto everyone. There is a difference between "I don't want to load your code" and "I don't w…

If you want to jump out of the plane, please pick a provider that serves skydivers. Do not try to open the door of a regular plane from a normal airline. Moreover, please do not try to make it illegal to have airlines that don't allow opening the door during mid-flight. It makes flying more dangerous for all of us, especially those who don't happen to have a parachute around.

No one is forcing you to stop loading whatever you want on your phone. Just pick a phone manufacturer that allows that. There is a difference between "I want to load anything on my phone" and "I want to load anything on any phone I choose, even from a manufacturer that specifically caters to people who are quite reluctant to load your code unchecked on their phones".

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#439

Post by Moldoteck »

nachteilig wrote: post #7

I would basically never assume that the EU actually understand the technical parts of these regulations. On its face it sounds pro-consumer, but USB-C is hardly a unified experience and I am almost sympathetic with Apple here from a user experience perspective.

I have a single cable that can handle up to 100W of charging power and a single anker charger with usb-c port. I can charge my phone, headphones, laptops(macbook included), powerbanks, I can transfer data and power between my devices just by connecting them(want to charge a phone with another? Easy peasy, want to transfer data across devices? Easy peasy). And all this with a single usbc cable, so tell me again how this is not a unified experience compared to the need to bring with me 2/3 cables to charge macbook/ipad and iphone/airpods?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#440

Post by Moldoteck »

misnome wrote: post #26
bpfrh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you expand on that? The EU effort to standardize phone connectors led to nearly every phone manufacturer adopt micro usb and then usb c. I don't see any reason that apple would be unable to use usb c after a everyone else uses it for more then 2 years.

> The EU effort to standardize phone connectors led to nearly every phone manufacturer adopt micro usb and then usb c. So, in other words, the EU forced one standard, which it is now abandoning (generating piles of micro-usb e-waste), and is now doing it again. And this is Apples' fault for not moving to USB-C in... 2012. Didn't Apple use USB-A wall chargers with the 30-pin for phones at a time when everyone else was…

Microusb wasn't forced. Usbc is. Also, if apple wants, they can include both usbc and lightning for eu market
Post reply on HN