Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole point of market economies is to let people vote with their resources. The alternative of having people vote for a representative body that regulates how they transact is far worse. Best case you get a almost as good outcome. Worst case is 49.9% of people suffer horribly under state enforced "social good".
The whole point of market economies is for those who have the most wealth decide how resources are utilized.
EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)
431–440 of 645 posts
Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)
#432Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't get why you would regulate such a thing. Because there's absolutely no downside to telling Apple it can't artificially make its iMessage platform restricted to Apple devices. We literally have seen leaked emails where Apple deliberately does this as an anti-consumer platform lock in play. The slippery slope hypothetical you provide is not the reality. Nobody is asking governments to regulate adding cool new…
> It's like you don't believe it's possible with the countless man years of resources these companies have to have software both interoperate and degrade gracefully when one client doesn't support all protocol features. I don't buy it, I believe we can. Every instance of that is a huge guesswork mess that I wouldn't wish upon average people to navigate though. RCS has tons of "maybe implement" features, and don't eve…
If two clients have good implementation, there is nothing messy about user experience. The only problem is that most clients are developed by hobbyists in their spare time, who might have very different ideas on how to do key verification, etc, so you get only what you get. It is not because of the protocol.
Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)
#433Earlier quoted context omitted.
Communication infrastructure is comparable to interstate networks, utilities, etc. If one is serving an appreciable percent of humanity expect to have your work, at least in part, and development avenues, decided for you by the governments representing the people you serve. I believe there is a philosophical misunderstanding here. Your users do not exist to serve your whims. Your projects continued existence is not a…
There's is a near infinite number of competitors to iMessage. There's Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger, Signal, Viber, Kik, Skype, Whatever Google Makes that they'll kill in six months, WeChat, Snapchat, Lime, Telegram... and I'm sure a bunch of others I've never heard of but other people live and die by. Not mention SMS and MMS. As a result, I don't understand why people are so mad at iMessage that they need it crippled…
I don't want it crippled. I want them to have to publish their code/spec publicly, so other people can interoperate with it.
Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)
#434Apple will probably make it very, very challenging to access this "open" iMessage outside of EU, and/or will make it very uncomfortable to use (especially for competing developers, but we've already seen this with the blue/green imessage bubbles)
Microsoft responded to a similar 'integration' sort of scenario with neutered versions of Windows (such as Windows N/Windows KN) that almost no one outside of the targeted areas would choose, which is almost certainly similar to how Apple will respond.
They might also release different versions of hardware with different components missing. In fact, Apple has already responded this way already, with regional iPhones:
* Japan iPhones have an obnoxious shutter-click sound because that's required for all cameras, so people know when they're being photographed.
* Chinese iPhones have no option to make Audio Facetime calls, only video.
* United Arab Emirates (UAE) do not support Facetime at all.
So, I don't see that this will likely result in much change at this point. Apple has proven itself to be smart, wily, and very aggressive about flouting laws or regulations that might reduce its stranglehold on its customers.
Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)
#435I don't get it. Isn't SMS the cross platform open standard to send text messages? Why force a proprietary product to open up? Feels like a big overreach of governmental powers.
Wouldn't the world be a better place with interoperable messaging standards and needing only a single messaging app for global communication? Yes. Is this happening organically via market forces? No. That's why. If there were a common standard that was widely supported and cross-app compatible, these regulations wouldn't have happened. Email doesn't cut it for real time messaging. Governments will pursue no brainer p…
No. I prefer diversity and the advantages it brings. For example, not being tied to a certain type of account, address or the phone number.
Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)
#436Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even the biggest fan of free markets agrees government need to prevent market failures, such as natural monopolies caused by network effects.
> Even the biggest fan of free markets agrees government need to prevent market failures, such as natural monopolies caused by network effects. No, the biggest fans of “free markets” do not think that, in fact, they mock both the general idea of “market failure” and the specific places where people outside their faith identify such failures: https://mises.org/library/market-failure https://mises.org/library/market-fa…
Central banking does not exist in a free market. Of course it will fail. Free markets are designed precisely to avoid the inevitable failure of a central authority.
Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)
#437Earlier quoted context omitted.
well this is the way legislation works, it's considered bad form to call them out by name so you choose some few characteristics that apply to them which has the side benefit that if in the future some other company comes along with those characteristics the same laws apply to them.
Also I am quite sure that such a law would be unconstitutional in a lot of places.
Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)
#438I know people who are trapped on iOS because they will become second-class citizens within their social circles if they "downgrade" to an android phone.
Opening up iMessage is a decent move, but we also need to get RCS well-supported everywhere so that we can all share a reasonably modern communication foundation.
Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)
#439Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fact check: The Digital Markets Act explicitly calls out end-to-end encryption as a feature that MUST be preserved if the platform supports it. From Article 7: "The level of security, including the end-to-end encryption, where applicable, that the gatekeeper provides to its own end users shall be preserved across the interoperable services."
Is there more on this? Can this as is really be enough to maintain the security guarantees Apple currently provides?
Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)
#440Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know this thread is from the EU- but I'm giving the US perspective here just FYI. >There's is a near infinite number of competitors to iMessage 50% of phones in the US are apple phones. Nearly everyone is exclusively using iMessage (and doesn't even realize that it's proprietary while trying to mix in SMS). Hardly anyone uses anything like whatsapp here. Good luck getting any somewhat older person to use multiple m…
How is your entire comment not a mere assumption that the issue is within iMessage itself and not other logically possible factors, such as your carrier, your reception, or your mother using her phone incorrectly? Also, allowing alternative messaging apps to be installed in your OS is exactly the opposite of “flagrant abuse”.
The very idea that someone 'allows' me to install something in my device reeks of serfdom.