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Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

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431–440 of 736 posts

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#431
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, but consider if you're a multinational corporation, and your employee asks for permission to work remotely from Japan for 90 days. Will your policies allow you to give permission for something illegal?

Why should they care? The liability is with the person, not the company.

Of course not. Employers have regulations as well. If you are paying someone working in Japan your employer should follow Japan laws on employer regulations.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most Europeans have access to things like cross border permits e.g. Switzerland/Germany and within the EU freedom of movement means it doesn't really matter much. You just register with the City Hall or wherever in your target country. This isn't as easy as it seems, even inside the EU. There are talks going on about laws regarding what constitutes "local hiring". Basically, the issue is that some companies hire pe…

I don't see a problem with this if the visiting workers are there less time than it takes to be considered a tax resident, eg. you have 3 months on-site onboarding and then proceed to work remotely. After some time you're considered a resident so it doesn't make a difference compared to a local hire ?

That's the thing, I don't think there's a clear duration after which you're automatically considered a tax resident.

The thing with these employees was that they never became local hires. So they would get their salary through their home country branch, with taxes paid over there, etc. The whole point is that these companies were trying to dance around the limits of employment law. What they were doing was technically legal, hence the will of the government to change the law.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#433
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article explicitly says they’re paying everyone the same pay across localities now. But for the many company’s that don’t, the justification is simply that the cost of Human resources is not based around output but around market dynamics like other resources. Fresh fruit in Japan costs more than it does in California not because the Japanese fruit is better per se, but because the cost of production is higher.

It says they're paying the same within countries, not between. In what sense is the cost of production of a programmer higher in the USA than in the UK?

I don't accept the premise, but student loans and healthcare are high costs that US folks bear that UK folks don't.

You keep trying to pretend that the local labor market is irrelevant. Until you accept that it isn't, or at the very least accept that companies don't think it is, you're going to keep talking past everyone here.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#434
post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What it is that leads you to believe the 3-6 months thing is so significant? There are (a very small proportion of) AirBnB guests who are awful. There are (a very small proportion of) longer-term tenants who are awful. At least with AirBnB, the awful guests are gone after a couple of nights. I know some AirBnBs are used as party destinations, and that's different -- but it's a problem with those hosts, not with the p…

If you’ve ever lived next to an active Airbnb I don’t think you’d ask this question. The issues with an endless stream of short term guests are like in your face obvious. You’re getting people who are in a leisure situation basically 100% of the time. Your normal neighbors aren’t like this. Even just the transitions are disruptive. Picture a European couple unable to figure out how to open the door with 4 suitcases c…

Where I live, many (perhaps even majority of) buildings have apartments that are rented as short-term tourist rentals, and I've lived in many such buildings. I never perceived any issues with short term guests.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#435

>Most companies don’t do this because of the mountain of complexities with taxes, payroll, and time zone availability, but I hope we can open-source a solution so other companies can offer this flexibility as well. I think this is a genius growth play for Airbnb. Make it easier for _other_ companies to operate in a similar way so that _their_ employees can travel and live in an... Airbnb! Next, they should lobby to g…

Many young European countries reliant on tourism, like Croatia, introduced digital nomad/remote working visas mid-COVID to encourage people to stimulate their local economies when tourism suffered the most.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a city that is a major tourist destination worldwide. Tourism has always been a blessing and a curse; shops always suffered a pressure to become tourist oriented; some big buildings were converted to hotels. With AirBnB the problem has expanded massively. I cannot find a 3-room office that is not miles away from the city center because everything that size is an AirBnB. An employee I just hired that moved h…

Never heard of a landlord who’d rather have a string of short term rentals than one continuous long term rental unless there’s some renter protection law that makes you an effective permanent tenant. Just rent through Airbnb and then talk to the guy about a normal lease. If you want, text me where you are, I’ll put up $10k for a bet and then if I can find you a 3 room office, you give me $10k. If I can’t, I’ll give y…

Here in a coastal south spain city, the rule is pretty much this:

weekly short term rental price in summer = monthly rental price for long term resident.

So if you rent for 12 weeks between late may and end of september you already make as much money than having a rental resident, and can still rent more expensively than a short term resident. For example owners typically rent a lot to tourists during the hottest months and in autumn/winter/fall a lot of digital nomad are filling the gap. They also usually have done the math and can swallow the higher rent than a local would.

Having said that, I don't want to be an owner here. Administration is horrible but basically everyone you will meet are either lazy or want to defraud you in some way and they have absolutely no sense of quality work. A friend of mine is renovating a small house all by himself because he got fed up by the locals. Maybe the end result won't be , but here the pros won't give you professionnal quality job anyway so at least he won't feel screwed.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#437

>Most companies don’t do this because of the mountain of complexities with taxes, payroll, and time zone availability, but I hope we can open-source a solution so other companies can offer this flexibility as well. I think this is a genius growth play for Airbnb. Make it easier for _other_ companies to operate in a similar way so that _their_ employees can travel and live in an... Airbnb! Next, they should lobby to g…

I'm not an immigration/tax lawyer and could be completely wrong but if you're from EU/US/UK/AUS etc I'm fairly sure you can work in another one of those countries for up to 90 days (and sometimes upto 183) without paying tax there or getting a work visa - as long as you're still resident and being paid in your home country under the Visa Waiver program. I've worked in NY offices and got paid in UK (admittedly a while…

Many others have chimed in, but this is very important to highlight. Meeting with clients, going to conference, having important meetings, these are things we consider work. However, from the eyes of the law, these are temporary things that need to be done in person for business that has already occurred. That is, if you come to a conference, meet a potential client, and then set up a sales meeting before you leave, you have conducted new business in the US and violated your B1 visa. See [1] for the actual exemptions. Technically, if you check your email while on B1, this could be construed that you are conducting unauthorized business in the US. Of course, these laws never foresaw technological progress and so the world governments look the other way because they do not know how/what to enforce.

I'm going to put it here as this is what an immigration person put it to me, just ask yourself "where are my feet?" That is the country/entity you should be paying your taxes to by default unless there is an explicit reciprocity agreement that may apply to you. So, if you're traveling Europe as an American while working remotely, you are violating tax law in every single country. From the law's point of view, there is no difference than as if you had contracted out your work to someone in each one of those countries. Don't worry, no one is going to come after you for those 10 hours but just know you are intentionally (or grossly negligent) making use of the inaction of enforcement.

[1] - https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that’s not what government laws says (for any country). Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but pretty much all countries/states consider you working there if you are physically present there. Your VPN or where your “commercial output” is, is not considered a factor at all by governments.

Most countries only care if you are taking a job that a local could have done. That is clearly not the case if you work remotely. If anything you are increasing local jobs by paying for your accomodation and food. Once again this has been reviewed by laywers at different companies who have deemed this risk to be acceptable. There might be countries that will arrest you if you read your corporate mail while on holiday…

> deemed this risk to be acceptable

Acceptable to the company. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's acceptable to you, especially if penalties would primarily fall on you for illegally claiming the wrong immigration status.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#439

>Most companies don’t do this because of the mountain of complexities with taxes, payroll, and time zone availability, but I hope we can open-source a solution so other companies can offer this flexibility as well. I think this is a genius growth play for Airbnb. Make it easier for _other_ companies to operate in a similar way so that _their_ employees can travel and live in an... Airbnb! Next, they should lobby to g…

It's funny how this is meant to be interpreted as a work/life benefit for employees when it is clearly a removal of labor restrictions for the company. If you can hire anyone from anywhere your cost of labor will decrease overall. Yes "you can move anywhere in the country you work in and your compensation won’t change", so future salaries don't have to reflect local expenditures. You can offer flat rates that encourages people to move out of high cost cities and decrease your overall labor costs. The idea that this is a win/win is seductive but it won't be. Increasing the labor pool chips away the leverage an employee has at the negotiation table.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#440

Sooo.. w/o getting into my history too deeply, my ex and I left the US in 2006 and worked freelance/remote. Wired did an article about us in 2008 living in a solar van when that was, like, unheard of. It seems like every few years a new batch of people want to try this approach, and it's always popular with the press to write about it. Sometimes it works out. I think it's a great way to live, and it teaches you a lot…

I guess you did consider the possibility that by using Airbnb to find accommodation you were nonetheless perpetuating the system by which they have turned cities into "hipster slums"?

The three months doesn't make much difference. I might be a responsible tenant when I use airbnb, whether in lots of short stays or one big one, but that doesn't stop other guests being awful.

Your three months just incentivised the owners to keep it as a short-term let.

Full disclosure: I have used Airbnb in the past.

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