Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

blog.tjcx.me

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–438 of 438 posts

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#431

Post by robocat »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #196
brimble wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm. They paint people who google symptoms as kooks or as annoying, but you have to if you ever want to get an actual diagnosis and treatment, because doctors and hospitals are, quite often, worse than Google at figuring out WTF is wrong. Do your best not to end up in a hospital without an advocate (friend, relative) watching out for you. They'll fail to treat you at best, then discharge you with a shrug and…

I was misdiagnosed with Bipolar Disorder for 30 years. Turns out it was Neuropsychiatric Lupus. Despite all my pleading to them to look further they never did. I had to teach myself biology and genetics while I was on disability. They missed all the common signs of Lupus; my skin, bad kidneys, etc. I am afraid all this technology is taking away all of our wisdom. Too easy to know things, very hard to understand them.

Did you see this: https://www.crick.ac.uk/news/2022-04-27_scientists-find-a-ge...

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#432

Post by someotherperson »

argonaut wrote: post #407
someotherperson wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limited evidence doesn't mean it doesn't work. The reasoning behind flossing makes a lot of sense: 1. You remove food sources for streptococcus mutans 2. You avoid inflammation from teeth shifting 3. You disrupt biofilm (plaque) formation in the joints of your teeth I imagine the evidence is limited because genetics, diet and other oral hygiene routines significantly impact the outcome. There is a whole microflora sy…

Yeah, but these same arguments apply in favor to the diode laser treatment the original article talks about. There is biological and chemical reasoning behind it. There are favorable vitro studies. And a couple of the systematic reviews linked in the original article conclude there is weak evidence that it is weakly effective (same with flossing).

I appreciate what you’re saying, but it’s worth keeping in mind that the cost of a single diode laser treatment can supply you with enough floss for an entire lifetime.

If the service was being provided for by the dentist for $1 I don’t think the author would have cared so much about the evidence behind it. Floss is just so incredibly cheap that even with weak evidence behind it it’s worth doing —- having just a 0.1% benefit, even if it’s just placebo, still has it being worthwhile.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#433

Post by Tostino »

WalterBright wrote: post #384
mmcdermott wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The slow diagnosis is because the specialists are so reluctant to see people. Right now I am on a six month wait to see a rheumatologist. Why? Capitalism. This remark seems somewhat lacking in rigor. I know bagging on capitalism is a common reflex, particularly in medicine, but something more is almost certainly going on. The default thought process for a retailer is to move units. A lawyer wants to rack up billabl…

> I am on a six month wait to see a rheumatologist. Why? Capitalism. Consider that the AMA is a monopoly enshrined by the government, and their purpose is to limit the supply of doctors, which they do by limiting the seats in medical schools. It's not capitalism. See Competition & Monopoly in Medical Care by Frech. https://www.amazon.com/Competition-Monopoly-Medical-Care-Fre...

It's regulatory capture, which i'd argue could be part of any economic system, but is deeply embedded in our current "capitalist" system. The AMA has put in place rules to protect itself at the expense of society as a whole.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#434

Post by cupofpython »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #379
cupofpython wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to move the process forward. This has been my experience as well dealing with fatigue. I was 25 when I finally got diagnosed with sleep apnea, after over a decade of symptoms. How something so common could go unnoticed by the adults and professional doctors in my life astonishes me still today. Eventually, thanks to ego, I questioned the narrative that I was just normal and lazy. Wi…

> How something so common could go unnoticed by the adults and professional doctors in my life astonishes me still today. A friend of mine was struggling with a weird disease, 7 years and 5 doctors later he finally found the cause -> vitamin D deficiency.

ironically my situation was the opposite. My vitamin D was a bit lower than the acceptable range so I kept getting brushed off until I fixed that. It was kind of hard to fix when I was dragging through life by a hazy thread though

I can be a PCP check it out - What is the most easily observable "defect" that's tangentially related to your symptoms? What is the most common treatment for that defect? Next patient.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#435

Post by jll29 »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #206
matsemann wrote: post #12

Why are dentists so scammy? In Norway I've seen documentaries about them sending the same people to multiple dentists, and some of them receive wildly different advice. Some of that can be ascribed to some being in the school of pro-active, so they want to fix your teeth at the first glance of issues. But in the end, most of the things being quoted were unnecessary. They all seemed very intent on removing wisdom teet…

> Why are dentists so scammy? Why? Capitalism. And I am serious. It is just the need to make a profit that drives them to these places.

Certainly capitalism when applied to medics causes a form of conflict of interest between patients' well-being and growing the personal bank account.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#436

Post by jjeaff »

asdff wrote: post #425
jjeaff wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes that can be a good idea. But many times, you are also getting riskier, out of date treatment for less. For example, root canals and crowns are kind of the cheaper and less effective way to treat a bad tooth. The gold standard is usually extraction and a new implant. And considering that you can find a dentist to do a root canal for $300 without too much trouble, I'm surprised anyone would be able to fly to…

I think actually it was implants that were done which my dentist quotes me $1600 for in the US

Yes, I have heard of people traveling for implants. But if they travel once and are done, then they are going to cheap route there as well. You can get all in one implants, and they are cheaper, even here in the US. But the kind of implants you really should get are the type that require placing a base first and then wait a few months for them to heal and set before installing the posts and permanents.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#437

Post by GFischer »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #234
bryanlarsen wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lupus is really hard to diagnose. There's a reason that ends up being the diagnosis on pretty much every episode of House M.D. Doctors generally see 6 patients an hour, and have 5-7 minutes of paperwork per patient. The remaining 3 minutes gives enough time to diagnose the obvious, but not much else.

It is not hard to diagnose once you eventually get to a person that can diagnose it. You said it yourself. It is not about difficultly, but time spent with the patient. But I literally showed my doctor the cutaneous lupus in my ear and she said "Oh, some people just get gunk in their ears" and would not send me to a rheumatologist. The slow diagnosis is because the specialists are so reluctant to see people. Right no…

You're blaming Capitalism, it isn't great, but the problem is that in the United States healthcare system you have Capitalism without Free Market, you have "crony"/rent-seeking/regulatory-capture Capitalism.

You can get a rheumatologist TODAY if you're willing to pay (quite a bit) more (at least here in Uruguay). THAT is free-market capitalism.

If you don't have money, you'll have to wait 2-3 months (quite a lot less than what you're saying), and you'll have it for free (here). That's socialism.

In crony capitalism, you have the worst of both worlds...

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#438

Post by e-dt »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #415
e-dt wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but not in general shortages of doctors. It's a totally different problem, so this isn't really a helpful way to look at it. After all, if there's a shortage of cabbages, it doesn't mean the remaining cabbages benefit and can lobby to keep it that way!

Cabbage farmers can, though.

Yes, but when that sort of thing happens in commodities it's an illegal cartel, whereas when it happens with jobs it's responsible self-regulation by a professional association.
Post reply on HN